Kaskara from Darfur

DaveS · 6th January 2011, 03:55 AM

here it is

DaveS · 6th January 2011, 04:02 AM

Disregard, couldn't get pictures to go through........Dave

Dom · 6th January 2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveS

here it is

Hi
interesting 20th Century Kaskara sword from Sudan, BUT ...
nicer if you might provide us with a pic for the whole sword TKS

à +

Dom

kino · 12th January 2011, 03:12 AM

Photos from DaveS.

Battara · 12th January 2011, 04:43 AM

A nice piece. I love these with silver hilts. What adds even more to this is the Arabic along the blade (instead of the usual European script).

colin henshaw · 12th January 2011, 01:20 PM

Very nice kaskara....

DaveS · 13th January 2011, 04:12 AM

I need a translation, if possible............Dave.

Dom · 13th January 2011, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveS

I need a translation, if possible............Dave.

YES ... if possible

my sweet translator has a print out of the pic, and she's facing some difficulties
- hand engraving (not too good) in old arabic
- short part of a poem
- here in France, we don't have a computer with Arabic system, the search is much more complicated
- might be our answer 'll be doubtful, unfortunatly

à +

Dom

katana · 13th January 2011, 02:30 PM

Hi Dave,
congrats....nice Kaskara. Are there any makers marks near the hilt ? The diamond patterning is similar to one of mine.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=kaskara

Kind Regards David

DaveS · 13th January 2011, 09:53 PM

Hi David: No, unfortunately there are no makers marks or any other marks of
any kind except the script. The blade is 35 inches long with a single wide
fuller extending the full length to the tip. The blade is also very flexible. Even
though there are no makers marks i believe it to probably be German made,
based on the quality of the blade. I have nothing to base this on other than
a hunch.
We bought this sword over twenty years ago. The scabbard is of the
highest quality that one usually sees with this type of handle and blade, but
unfortunately the main carry strap is in bad shape. The main reason that we
trying to get a translation is because an arab historian that we took this sword to told us that one side translated to being the geneolgy of Ali Dinar.
At the time, this meant nothing to us, but now knowing a little bit of the
history of the area it is much more meaningfull. The other side of the blade
he was not able to translate but since then another person said that it
reads as follows "WHEN THEY RIDE ON THE BACKS OF THEIR HORSES THEY
ARE EXTREMELY DETERMINED AND COURAGES".
This Historian then offered us a large amount of money for the sword,
which basically blew us away. I don't know if this is an Ali Dinar sword or
not. I think you people here might have some insight in helping us identify
more about this sword...........Dave and Lonna.

Dom · 16th January 2011, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveS

I need a translation, if possible............Dave.

at least ... here we are

we got it

sorry for delay, but we found who wrote that poem, and we offer you not a translation, because ... how to translate a poetic spirit ... ??

....
but what could be the sense of the verses
"the seat of the rider on the back of his horse is stable,
without regard to the fury and cries of his enemies,
and he did not need to be fastened"

the writter; El Iman Al Busiri,
born ° 620 Hegir,
he is accepted to be an Egyptian from Upper Egypt with Berber origins (Morocco),
he was in charge for a mosquee (title of "Iman")

ref according with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qa%E1%B...%ABda_al-Burda

à +

Dom

Edster · 16th January 2011, 09:07 PM

Attached is a photo of a sword stylistically similiar, but not of the quality of Daves. I believe the blade is European due to the makes mark barely ledgable. I have a photo of another example given to a Mr. Shangiti (a famous schalor and jurist) and that is a close cousin to the Daves with similiar tassel and diamond motif grip. in a library dedicated to him at the University of Kartoum. There are six swords in the "Shangiti Collection" in his library in 1884. Sorry I don't currently have access to these photographs to illustrate.

The diamond motif of Daves sword is said to have originated at Atbara on the Nile below Khartoum. The Nile Arabised tribes were the most sophisticated and prosperious and were at odds to the Mahdi and the Khalifa who were from the western provinces.

My guess on Daves sword is that it was produced and decorated at Atbara as a presentational piece. It may have in fact been gifted to Ali Dinar, but I don't think it originated in Darfur.

Best regards,
Ed

DaveS · 17th January 2011, 02:28 AM

Dom: Thank you very much for that translation. It does differ slightly from
what we were told originally, but the gist of the meaning was similar. Has
anyone had any luck with the other inscription........Dave.

6th January 2011, 03:55 AM	#1
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Kaskara from Darfur here it is Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 14th January 2011 at 05:07 PM.

12th January 2011, 03:12 AM	#4
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,001	Photos from DaveS. Attached Images

16th January 2011, 09:07 PM	#12
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 408	Attached is a photo of a sword stylistically similiar, but not of the quality of Daves. I believe the blade is European due to the makes mark barely ledgable. I have a photo of another example given to a Mr. Shangiti (a famous schalor and jurist) and that is a close cousin to the Daves with similiar tassel and diamond motif grip. in a library dedicated to him at the University of Kartoum. There are six swords in the "Shangiti Collection" in his library in 1884. Sorry I don't currently have access to these photographs to illustrate. The diamond motif of Daves sword is said to have originated at Atbara on the Nile below Khartoum. The Nile Arabised tribes were the most sophisticated and prosperious and were at odds to the Mahdi and the Khalifa who were from the western provinces. My guess on Daves sword is that it was produced and decorated at Atbara as a presentational piece. It may have in fact been gifted to Ali Dinar, but I don't think it originated in Darfur. Best regards, Ed Attached Images

6th January 2011, 04:02 AM	#2
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Disregard, couldn't get pictures to go through........Dave

12th January 2011, 04:43 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	A nice piece. I love these with silver hilts. What adds even more to this is the Arabic along the blade (instead of the usual European script).

12th January 2011, 01:20 PM	#6
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Very nice kaskara....

13th January 2011, 04:12 AM	#7
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	I need a translation, if possible............Dave.

13th January 2011, 02:30 PM	#9
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Dave, congrats....nice Kaskara. Are there any makers marks near the hilt ? The diamond patterning is similar to one of mine. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=kaskara Kind Regards David

13th January 2011, 09:53 PM	#10
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Hi David: No, unfortunately there are no makers marks or any other marks of any kind except the script. The blade is 35 inches long with a single wide fuller extending the full length to the tip. The blade is also very flexible. Even though there are no makers marks i believe it to probably be German made, based on the quality of the blade. I have nothing to base this on other than a hunch. We bought this sword over twenty years ago. The scabbard is of the highest quality that one usually sees with this type of handle and blade, but unfortunately the main carry strap is in bad shape. The main reason that we trying to get a translation is because an arab historian that we took this sword to told us that one side translated to being the geneolgy of Ali Dinar. At the time, this meant nothing to us, but now knowing a little bit of the history of the area it is much more meaningfull. The other side of the blade he was not able to translate but since then another person said that it reads as follows "WHEN THEY RIDE ON THE BACKS OF THEIR HORSES THEY ARE EXTREMELY DETERMINED AND COURAGES". This Historian then offered us a large amount of money for the sword, which basically blew us away. I don't know if this is an Ali Dinar sword or not. I think you people here might have some insight in helping us identify more about this sword...........Dave and Lonna.

17th January 2011, 02:28 AM	#13
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Dom: Thank you very much for that translation. It does differ slightly from what we were told originally, but the gist of the meaning was similar. Has anyone had any luck with the other inscription........Dave.