Keris Bugis Raja Gundala

Lei Shen Dao · 18th May 2006, 02:49 AM

Dear members

I would like to know your opinion about this Javanese Keris that I have in my possesion the last year.

I was told that it is pamor Raja Guntala and the name of it is Belanak Makan Makani / "the Belanak (fish) eating his food".
You can see quite clearly the head of a fish at the base. Along the length of the blade is a larger fish chasing a smaller one. At the base, above the fish head, is the form of a man swimming.

It is very old (at least I was told) but it would be interesting to know the possible era, dapur etc.

Thanks guys

Rick · 18th May 2006, 03:04 AM

Lei ,
But I just don't see what you are describing in the pamor .
I do see a form that reminds me of a Pepperidge Farm Goldfish cracker ; but I see no fish head nor any man swimming .

I guess that sometimes looking at pamor and interpreting it is like watching clouds .
Then again that is just me ; your and others' mileage may vary .

Again , I speak only for myself and certainly as no 'expert' .

Rick

Lei Shen Dao · 18th May 2006, 03:47 AM

Hi Rick

You are by far a lot more "expert" than me at least.

Yes, I can understand your point and of course this is the case many times with the "pamor reading

".

But, if you see in the first picture you will see the image of a fish chasing a smaller one to eat it. The name of the fish is Belanak (a wild fish in Indonesia I was told...).
In the second picture in the base is a form that remindes the head of a fish (like an epinephelous) with it's mouth slightly open. Above the head of the fish and in the left side, is seems that there is the form of a man (head, two legs) if you see it from a diagonal view. If you see the blade form close distance, it is more obvious.

The interesting thing is that the name of the pamor from the seller was Belanak Makan Makani (named after the form of the Belanak), something that I have never encounder before.

In any case though, you are correct. Fantasy can play many games to a wissfull mind

Thanks for your post.

Lei Shen Dao · 18th May 2006, 03:48 AM

By the way, what is "Pepperidge Farm Goldfish cracker"

Lei Shen Dao · 20th May 2006, 02:21 AM

Guys
Thank you very much for trying to help me.

You are very helpfull

Ian · 10th August 2006, 05:11 AM

This active thread belongs with the new keris forum, so over it goes.

Ian.

David · 10th August 2006, 05:38 AM

Thanks Ian and welcome Zack.

Well, i think the thing about Pamor Raja Gundala is that it is somewhat up to YOUR imagination, unless it is something undisputably obvious. This looks like a standing figure to me and the head looks somewhat skull-like. What do you see?

Pangeran Datu · 20th May 2006, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lei Shen Dao

By the way, what is "Pepperidge Farm Goldfish cracker"

An American icon, the GOLDFISH cracker. Pepperidge Farm has produced its small goldfish-shaped cheddar cheese cracker since 1962.

WRT your keris:
Yes, I can see that you can call it a Raja Gundala - Ikan Belanak Makan Makane.
A Raja Gundala usually occurs as a dwiwarna, the other being e.g. Beas Utah, Pulo Tirta.
Try to see whether the Raja Gundala is Tiban or carved/etched, the former being more prized by connoiseurs for its divine qualities.

Regards.

Lei Shen Dao · 21st May 2006, 02:23 AM

Dear Pangeran

Thank you very much for your contribution.
It is pamor Tiban from what I know, but I don't have a clue about the dapur and the tanguh. I know it isn't easy to say from some pictures.

Anyway, thank you for your help.

BluErf · 21st May 2006, 07:05 AM

Oh, that's a real good likeness!!

I've always enjoyed looking for rojo gondolo on kerises with pamor tiban.

I've got a few:

Sleeping bear:
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php

Moustachioed man with gaping mouth:
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php

Screaming face reminiscent of the mask from "I know what you did last summer", I think:
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php

And I have a "fetus" rojo gondolo in a "womb" (actually, a qul buntet):

18th May 2006, 02:49 AM	#1
Lei Shen Dao Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	Javanese Keris Raja Guntala (Merged With Zack's Bugis Gundala Post) Dear members I would like to know your opinion about this Javanese Keris that I have in my possesion the last year. I was told that it is pamor Raja Guntala and the name of it is Belanak Makan Makani / "the Belanak (fish) eating his food". You can see quite clearly the head of a fish at the base. Along the length of the blade is a larger fish chasing a smaller one. At the base, above the fish head, is the form of a man swimming. It is very old (at least I was told) but it would be interesting to know the possible era, dapur etc. Thanks guys Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 11th August 2006 at 02:47 AM. Reason: MERGING POSTS

18th May 2006, 03:04 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	No Offense Lei , But I just don't see what you are describing in the pamor . I do see a form that reminds me of a Pepperidge Farm Goldfish cracker ; but I see no fish head nor any man swimming . I guess that sometimes looking at pamor and interpreting it is like watching clouds . Then again that is just me ; your and others' mileage may vary . Again , I speak only for myself and certainly as no 'expert' . Rick

10th August 2006, 05:11 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Transferring to new Keris Forum This active thread belongs with the new keris forum, so over it goes. Ian.

21st May 2006, 07:05 AM	#10
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Oh, that's a real good likeness!! I've always enjoyed looking for rojo gondolo on kerises with pamor tiban. I've got a few: Sleeping bear: http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php Moustachioed man with gaping mouth: http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php Screaming face reminiscent of the mask from "I know what you did last summer", I think: http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php And I have a "fetus" rojo gondolo in a "womb" (actually, a qul buntet): Attached Images

18th May 2006, 03:47 AM	#3
Lei Shen Dao Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	Hi Rick You are by far a lot more "expert" than me at least. Yes, I can understand your point and of course this is the case many times with the "pamor reading ". But, if you see in the first picture you will see the image of a fish chasing a smaller one to eat it. The name of the fish is Belanak (a wild fish in Indonesia I was told...). In the second picture in the base is a form that remindes the head of a fish (like an epinephelous) with it's mouth slightly open. Above the head of the fish and in the left side, is seems that there is the form of a man (head, two legs) if you see it from a diagonal view. If you see the blade form close distance, it is more obvious. The interesting thing is that the name of the pamor from the seller was Belanak Makan Makani (named after the form of the Belanak), something that I have never encounder before. In any case though, you are correct. Fantasy can play many games to a wissfull mind Thanks for your post.

18th May 2006, 03:48 AM	#4
Lei Shen Dao Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	By the way, what is "Pepperidge Farm Goldfish cracker"

20th May 2006, 02:21 AM	#5
Lei Shen Dao Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	Guys Thank you very much for trying to help me. You are very helpfull

10th August 2006, 05:38 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	Thanks Ian and welcome Zack. Well, i think the thing about Pamor Raja Gundala is that it is somewhat up to YOUR imagination, unless it is something undisputably obvious. This looks like a standing figure to me and the head looks somewhat skull-like. What do you see?

21st May 2006, 02:23 AM	#9
Lei Shen Dao Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	Dear Pangeran Thank you very much for your contribution. It is pamor Tiban from what I know, but I don't have a clue about the dapur and the tanguh. I know it isn't easy to say from some pictures. Anyway, thank you for your help.