Origin of this Yataghan? (With pictures!)

[Khelben]

Hi! New to the forum. The first time I tried to post it apparently all of my attachments failed to upload (Too Big) and I didn't notice. I think I am still in a "moderators must approve your threads" phase, and so I hope they will just delete that one. I have thus resized the images to fit the forum's limitations, and this time around it accepted them.

So, I received this Yataghan when my dad died, along with several other swords and Bayonets. He thought it was a Turkish Yataghan, but I suspect that was largely more of a "Turks had Yataghans" thing, because upon looking for something comparable, mine is quite different, particularly in the hilt.

I'm looking for some help identifying what the source of this sword could be, with it's more westernized looking hilt.

Is it a Turkish export to be sold to Europeans? Has someone replaced the original hilt with a new one? What am I looking at here? Have any of you guys seen one like this before?

[TVV]

To me, based on the blade and bolster, this looks like a Greek yataghan that was rehilted at some point, with the hilt being inspired by bayonet brass hilts such as those on the Chassepot bayonet.

Regards,
Teodor

[Khelben]

Thanks. That's very helpful.

Is there a database I could look through to identify the maker's mark, that you know of, or are there not good records for that sort of thing?

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by TVV

To me, based on the blade and bolster, this looks like a Greek yataghan that was rehilted at some point, with the hilt being inspired by bayonet brass hilts such as those on the Chassepot bayonet.

Regards,
Teodor

I disagree with Teodor, I don't think that each time we have a yataghan with silver niello work it has to be Greek. I could have been done in any place from Turkey to Bosnia.

what is very intriguing are the 4 dots, are they rivets? Can you do more photos and close-ups?
It looks like a replacement hilt, but the tang was reworked too.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Please see http://atkinson-swords.com/collectio...an-turkey.html where another circular mark can be viewed on a Yatagan. The example at web is Ottoman.

[TVV]

Anything is possible, and there was a lot of movement of blades and even craftsmen within the Ottoman Empire. However, decorative techniques and motives were based on regional preference, and the shape and decoration of the bolster is associated with Greece. The style of the blade, with the upturned tip is also a Cretan and Greek characteristic. So based on this, it seems most likely that this yataghan was made in Greece. Where it was used and subsequently rehilted is hard to tell, at least for me, but at least we can make an educated guess on where it was originally produced.

Teodor

[OsobistGB]

I agree with Theodor on 100%.The style of work is Greek

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by TVV

The style of the blade, with the upturned tip is also a Cretan and Greek characteristic. So based on this, it seems most likely that this yataghan was made in Greece. Where it was used and subsequently rehilted is hard to tell, at least for me, but at least we can make an educated guess on where it was originally produced.
Teodor

MMMMm i would like to believe you but i don't know where you got your information's. Please look at a reference book like Arms of Greece and you will see that it's not true. Books are always the answer. If someone can translate Russian we will see, maybe Teodor is right...

Second point for Kelhben here is a list of stamps similars to yours.

Kubur

[gp]

Some additional reading :

http://www.muzej-senj.hr/web/media/K...VO-GMS-web.pdf

http://www.muzej.mod.gov.rs/en/museu...n#.XsAnQMDgo2x

Some more visualisations (13 pictures actually from last year's exhibition) by the Bosnian institute in Sarajevo BiH :
https://www.klix.ba/magazin/kultura/...ozbi/180418111
Click on the foto to get access to all 13 pics

and a few from Livo: http://www.fmgg-livno.com/postavi/zb...-vojne-opreme/

By the way... Sarajevo or Sarajewo or also sometimes written in older books as Serajewo: the name originates form 2 Turkish words: Saray Bosna, meaning castle or fortress at (the river) Bosna.

Saray (Arabic: السراي‎; Turkish: sarayı, seray), with the variant saraya or seraya (السرايا), is a castle, palace or government building which was considered to have particular administrative importance in various parts of the former Ottoman Empire. Seray may also be spelt serail in English, via French influence, in which case the L is (in principle) silent. But has nothing to do with Seraglio.

Think also of Galatasaray, a most famous sportclub in Istambul,which name also derives from its ancient origin as a Celtic Castle!
Now one thinks basketketball and football ( or soccer for our American friends) but its meaning was simply Fortress of the Galats , where the Galats are Celts ! And later the neighbourhoodtook over this name...

FYI: As the Celtic tribes first went South from Poland in the past ( must have been around a couple of centuries BC) , they split up in West Europe ( NL- Belgium) into 3 directions:
West to England and later Wales and Eire.
South to Spain and North Africa (Morocco)
East along the Danube ( coins struck 200 B.C near Belgrade Serbia) to Turkey.
But that is altogether another story.

3 pictures / drawings are by Th. Valerio in "souvenirs d'un voyage chez les Slaves du Sud “ from 1868 by Georges Perrot.
the bearded gent is by unknown in an article "a travers la Bosnie-Herzegovine" dated 1896 by Guillaume Capus and the 5th “ Turkish warrior and Montenegrin” from 1904 Deutsche Alpenzeitung "Wanderungen durch Bosnien, die Hercegowina, Montenegro und Dalmatien."

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by gp

Saray (Arabic: السراي‎; Turkish: sarayı, seray), with the variant saraya or seraya (السرايا), is a castle, palace or government building which was considered to have particular administrative importance

Like topkapi saray