Help with yatagans' inscriptions

TVV · 14th July 2007, 07:58 PM

A friend of mine from Bulgaria has several yatagans and he would love to learn what the transcriptions on them mean. Can anyone help, I would really appreciate it?
Thank you very much,
Teodor

Pictures of first yatagan attached

TVV · 14th July 2007, 08:05 PM

Second yatagan, and a stamp from the third yatagan.

Battara · 14th July 2007, 08:15 PM

W W!

Are those 4 rows of twist core I see!?!? Please show the rest of the sword!

TVV · 14th July 2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

W W!

Are those 4 rows of twist core I see!?!? Please show the rest of the sword!

I am not sure Jose, I think this pattern is referred to as Turksih Ribbon. Whatever the case, it certainly took a skillfull smith to produce this lovely blade, and hopefully we may learn his name if the inscription is translated.
Regards,
Teodor

Battara · 15th July 2007, 10:08 PM

The second one with walrus ivory looks Balkan by the ear profile.

TVV · 15th July 2007, 10:36 PM

They are all Balkan, collected in Bulgaria, with details such as villages where these were found available for a few of them. Of course, they could have travelled from one place to another in the past, but I Believe they were all made in the Balkans. Based on examples, walrus hilted yatagans are generally from the Western Balkans, such as Bosnia, and in the Eastern Balkans the hilts are mostly from dark horn - predominantly cow or buffalo, although on one of the examples pictured, which has the smallest ears, the hilt is made of rhino horn.

Richard Furrer · 17th August 2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

W W!

Are those 4 rows of twist core I see!?!? Please show the rest of the sword!

I count five on the upper and six on the next sword with a back and edge welded on as well.

Ric

TVV · 11th December 2007, 08:50 PM

I am afraid my friend has developped an addiction to damascus yatagans now and he is on a quest to acquire them all. Here is his latest acquisition and I believe this time the yatagan originates from Asia Minor as opposed to the Balkans. Here are some pictures along with the usual request for translation - I have not lost hope yet.
Teodor

Dom · 31st March 2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Here are some pictures along with the usual request for translation Teodor

Hi Teodor
sorry, but even don't seems to be arabic

à +

Dom

attached; one pic of a series from 3

TVV · 14th July 2007, 08:16 PM

And the inscription on the 4th piece, followed by pictures of the yatagans.

Zifir · 13th December 2007, 11:20 PM

Hi,
The inscription is "amel-e elhac mustafa, sahib ahmed aga" [made by mustafa the pilgrim, owner ahmed aga]

the date is partly erased, I could only make out the number "88" at the very end, and it's probably 1288 hejira= 1871-1872

Dom · 31st March 2008, 03:34 PM

sorry, because if arabic alphabet,
seems not be arabic language

Turkish ? Farsi ?

à +

Dom

ariel · 15th October 2012, 03:51 AM

The one with the T-handle is a Zeibek one, IMHO.
http://www.timsah.com/Zeybek-Dance-COKERTME/nTVV0PBAXku

TVV · 15th October 2012, 09:55 PM

Zifir,

Thank you very much for the translations. The yataghans in posts 55 & 56 were similar in terms of their decoration, and were made in a span of 4 years, but as we now know thanks to your translation, by different smiths. Also, thank you for cinfirming my suspicions about the inscripions on the modern Indian daggers: it must indeed be difficult for contemporary kotgari artists to copy old inscriptions.

Ariel, good observation on the T-shaped hilt. I have always assumed that it is an Anatolian feature, but now you have linked it more specifically to the southern parts of Asia Minor, facing the Aegean. I am sure that period photos, if any come up, will further confirm this. I am assuming you were referring to the yataghan in post 17, since it is the only one in this thread with this type of hilt.

Many thanks to everyone again,
Teodor

TVV · 19th March 2013, 07:22 PM

Here is another one for translation, many thanks in advance to Ziir or anyone else who attempt to unlock the meaning of the inscriptions.

Teodor

TVV · 23rd March 2013, 07:33 PM

Better pictures uploaded.

14th July 2007, 07:58 PM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	Help with yatagans' inscriptions A friend of mine from Bulgaria has several yatagans and he would love to learn what the transcriptions on them mean. Can anyone help, I would really appreciate it? Thank you very much, Teodor Pictures of first yatagan attached Attached Images

14th July 2007, 08:05 PM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	Second yatagan, and a stamp from the third yatagan. Attached Images

11th December 2007, 08:50 PM	#8
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	I am afraid my friend has developped an addiction to damascus yatagans now and he is on a quest to acquire them all. Here is his latest acquisition and I believe this time the yatagan originates from Asia Minor as opposed to the Balkans. Here are some pictures along with the usual request for translation - I have not lost hope yet. Teodor Attached Images

14th July 2007, 08:16 PM	#10
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	And the inscription on the 4th piece, followed by pictures of the yatagans. Attached Images

13th December 2007, 11:20 PM	#11
Zifir Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Hi, The inscription is "amel-e elhac mustafa, sahib ahmed aga" [made by mustafa the pilgrim, owner ahmed aga] the date is partly erased, I could only make out the number "88" at the very end, and it's probably 1288 hejira= 1871-1872 Attached Images

14th July 2007, 08:15 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	W W! Are those 4 rows of twist core I see!?!? Please show the rest of the sword!

15th July 2007, 10:08 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	The second one with walrus ivory looks Balkan by the ear profile.

15th July 2007, 10:36 PM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	They are all Balkan, collected in Bulgaria, with details such as villages where these were found available for a few of them. Of course, they could have travelled from one place to another in the past, but I Believe they were all made in the Balkans. Based on examples, walrus hilted yatagans are generally from the Western Balkans, such as Bosnia, and in the Eastern Balkans the hilts are mostly from dark horn - predominantly cow or buffalo, although on one of the examples pictured, which has the smallest ears, the hilt is made of rhino horn.

31st March 2008, 03:34 PM	#12
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	sorry, because if arabic alphabet, seems not be arabic language Turkish ? Farsi ? à + Dom Attached Images Last edited by Dom; 31st March 2008 at 04:36 PM.

15th October 2012, 03:51 AM	#13
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The one with the T-handle is a Zeibek one, IMHO. http://www.timsah.com/Zeybek-Dance-COKERTME/nTVV0PBAXku

15th October 2012, 09:55 PM	#14
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	Zifir, Thank you very much for the translations. The yataghans in posts 55 & 56 were similar in terms of their decoration, and were made in a span of 4 years, but as we now know thanks to your translation, by different smiths. Also, thank you for cinfirming my suspicions about the inscripions on the modern Indian daggers: it must indeed be difficult for contemporary kotgari artists to copy old inscriptions. Ariel, good observation on the T-shaped hilt. I have always assumed that it is an Anatolian feature, but now you have linked it more specifically to the southern parts of Asia Minor, facing the Aegean. I am sure that period photos, if any come up, will further confirm this. I am assuming you were referring to the yataghan in post 17, since it is the only one in this thread with this type of hilt. Many thanks to everyone again, Teodor

19th March 2013, 07:22 PM	#15
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	Here is another one for translation, many thanks in advance to Ziir or anyone else who attempt to unlock the meaning of the inscriptions. Teodor Attached Images

23rd March 2013, 07:33 PM	#16
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	Better pictures uploaded. Attached Images