SWORD for comment and I D please

kahnjar1 · 23rd December 2008, 05:52 AM

I have this sword for comment and identification please. Hilt is brass and appears that it might be cast. The blade is straight and is not sharp on either edge. It looks as if it was made specifically for thrusting. Blade profile is as shown (on both sides).
Regards Stuart

Jim McDougall · 23rd December 2008, 05:42 PM

Hi Stu,

Very attractive cavalry officers 'walloon' type sword, probably Continental and end of the 18th century to early 19th. It seems like this form was widely used for military officers by many countries, so we would need to really hit the typology references to really narrow it down. The scallop shell decoration may offer some telling definition. That blade cross section seems unusual as well. More research needed of course, but this is the trail to follow in my perception.

All best regards,
Jim

kahnjar1 · 28th December 2008, 09:09 PM

Thanks Jim for your input. Does anyone else have any ideas please??

celtan · 29th December 2008, 04:07 AM

Hi Guys, I don't think kt's a walloon. More probably late 19th C or early 20th?

Perhaps Swedish?

Warmest regards

Manuel

Henk · 29th December 2008, 03:38 PM

Searched in some books but couldn't pin it down. I think it is military, British and probably an infantry sabre.
The gues of Manuel about age is probably correct.

kahnjar1 · 29th December 2008, 08:12 PM

Hi Henk,
Not a sabre IMHO as they were a cutting weapon. This is DEFINATELY a thrusting weapon as the edges are not sharp. I very much doubt the British heritage also, as military swords usually had the Regimental Cypher on the hilt, and also the name of the swordsmith, or at least a proof stamp.
The plot thickens!!

Atlantia · 29th December 2008, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Stu,

Very attractive cavalry officers 'walloon' type sword, probably Continental and end of the 18th century to early 19th. It seems like this form was widely used for military officers by many countries, so we would need to really hit the typology references to really narrow it down. The scallop shell decoration may offer some telling definition. That blade cross section seems unusual as well. More research needed of course, but this is the trail to follow in my perception.

All best regards,
Jim

I'd say you are pretty much bang on the button Jim.

It's a Walloon, and I'd agree the simple bronze form of the guard is later, I'd have said last 1/4 of the 18thC, possibly a little earlier if I had to guess.

IMHO its not British, and without finding some marks on the blade I'd possibly lean towards it being Dutch with 2x?? added because thats just a first impression.

Regards
Gene

celtan · 30th December 2008, 12:56 AM

What exactly do you call a walloon?

For me, this is walloon (belgian) , and I don't see any similarities...

The perforated hand cover is missing in mine...

M

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

I'd say you are pretty much bang on the button Jim.

It's a Walloon, and I'd agree the simple bronze form of the guard is later, I'd have said last 1/4 of the 18thC, possibly a little earlier if I had to guess.

IMHO its not British, and without finding some marks on the blade I'd possibly lean towards it being Dutch with 2x?? added because thats just a first impression.

Regards
Gene

Atlantia · 30th December 2008, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celtan

What exactly do you call a walloon?

For me, this is walloon (belgian) , and I don't see any similarities...

The perforated hand cover is missing in mine...

M

Hi Manuel,
Any excuse to show off that beauty!

These are quite varied, and produced for a long period. There is some variation in style, and yours is a rather fine one.
Some even have a single sided guard if memory serves.

Regards
Gene

kahnjar1 · 30th December 2008, 04:28 AM

Hi, and thanks for the replies so far from those who have answered.

Consensus seems to suggest a Walloon, but I sense some doubt.
I have had a look at all references to Walloon that I can fine in my books, and although the hilt is SIMILAR, it is not in my mind a definate identification.
WHAT ABOUT THE BLADE??
I have yet to see an illustration showing this blade profile. All that I have seen on illustrations of Walloon have fullers, or are what I would call standard blade profile.
What do you think?

celtan · 30th December 2008, 01:07 PM

Hi Gene,

Thanks for the kind words. This one is certailnly one of my favorites, I like the way it feels on my grip.

Which reminds me: I just let go of one of my swords, a US CW Cavalry saber that feels equally pleasant. A pity, I'm now sorry I placed it on auction, too late though, since I must honor my commitment. But certain swords do leave a pleasant feeling after handling them.

Back to the sword at hand. What characteristics makes one sword a Walloon?

Is this sword a Walloon?

M

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Manuel,
Any excuse to show off that beauty!

These are quite varied, and produced for a long period. There is some variation in style, and yours is a rather fine one.
Some even have a single sided guard if memory serves.

Regards
Gene

Norman McCormick · 8th January 2009, 10:06 PM

Hi All,
Three British 1796 Heavy Cavalry Dress Swords all slightly different hilts, blades and scabbards. As a dress sword the blade profile may not be just as important as usual and could possibly be an older 'family' blade remounted.
Regards,
Norman.

23rd December 2008, 05:52 AM	#1
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	SWORD for comment and I D please I have this sword for comment and identification please. Hilt is brass and appears that it might be cast. The blade is straight and is not sharp on either edge. It looks as if it was made specifically for thrusting. Blade profile is as shown (on both sides). Regards Stuart Attached Images

28th December 2008, 09:09 PM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	Anyone out there??? Thanks Jim for your input. Does anyone else have any ideas please??

8th January 2009, 10:06 PM	#12
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi All, Three British 1796 Heavy Cavalry Dress Swords all slightly different hilts, blades and scabbards. As a dress sword the blade profile may not be just as important as usual and could possibly be an older 'family' blade remounted. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

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23rd December 2008, 05:42 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hi Stu, Very attractive cavalry officers 'walloon' type sword, probably Continental and end of the 18th century to early 19th. It seems like this form was widely used for military officers by many countries, so we would need to really hit the typology references to really narrow it down. The scallop shell decoration may offer some telling definition. That blade cross section seems unusual as well. More research needed of course, but this is the trail to follow in my perception. All best regards, Jim

29th December 2008, 04:07 AM	#4
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	Hi Guys, I don't think kt's a walloon. More probably late 19th C or early 20th? Perhaps Swedish? Warmest regards Manuel

29th December 2008, 03:38 PM	#5
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Searched in some books but couldn't pin it down. I think it is military, British and probably an infantry sabre. The gues of Manuel about age is probably correct.

29th December 2008, 08:12 PM	#6
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	Hi Henk, Not a sabre IMHO as they were a cutting weapon. This is DEFINATELY a thrusting weapon as the edges are not sharp. I very much doubt the British heritage also, as military swords usually had the Regimental Cypher on the hilt, and also the name of the swordsmith, or at least a proof stamp. The plot thickens!!

30th December 2008, 04:28 AM	#10
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	Hi, and thanks for the replies so far from those who have answered. Consensus seems to suggest a Walloon, but I sense some doubt. I have had a look at all references to Walloon that I can fine in my books, and although the hilt is SIMILAR, it is not in my mind a definate identification. WHAT ABOUT THE BLADE?? I have yet to see an illustration showing this blade profile. All that I have seen on illustrations of Walloon have fullers, or are what I would call standard blade profile. What do you think?