Keris Pangeran Dipenogoro

mykeris · 8th May 2005, 05:14 PM

Sorry guys, the title is just a gimmick

. All photos taken through my hand phone camera so pls expect some blurred pictures. How I wish, I could have brought a proper camera but not allowed for the second time. This keris belonged to a very reputable Bugis family, newly dresssed (1960s) in Malay style. This keris has some interesting history to it. To my surprise, I was shiverred to see the blade. Could it be a Javanese blade, A Semenanjung blade, Sumatran Blade or a Bugis blade? I would give age to about 1600s, non laminated blade with two mosters namely a Dragon and another motif down under it, which I could not identify.
It has deep fullers to the tip at both sides, just like an ordinary Malela blade. Any comment?

Rick · 8th May 2005, 05:26 PM

Would love to see a picture of the entire blade .

mykeris · 8th May 2005, 05:39 PM

Sorry Rick, I was handicapped

.

nechesh · 8th May 2005, 06:32 PM

MyKeris, not allowed a real camera for the second time? Handicapped in the taking? Did you take these photos then, on the sly, without the owners permission?

mykeris · 8th May 2005, 08:03 PM

Nechesh, not as easy as we think, taking photos of certain pusaka of the 'orthodox' elderly Malay community needs long wait, the right time and moment and permission

nechesh · 8th May 2005, 08:39 PM

Well MyKeris, i, for one, wouldn't imagine it would be easy at all to get permission to photograph the pusaka of anyone in the "orthodox" Malay community. I would think that if you did get permission though, they might at least let you use a real camera to take the picture.

I'm not sure you actually answered my question though.

rasdan · 9th May 2005, 07:00 AM

Hi mykeris,

Is this the keris that u had been telling me before? Im suprised it is a naga. If this is the piece, i can sure say that it is authentic. It seems unusual to have both naga and singa barong on one keris. However, i dont think we can accept this as a malela. Its the wide groove alongside the naga that makes it looks like fullers. Thanks for sharing, however, now that u had shown the keris pictures, in a few years, naga-singa kerises will starting to reach the shores of malaysia from madura.

Perhaps someone can help to identify wheather the naga is javaneese or malay. On the other hand, i havent seen any singa on a malay blade.

Alam Shah · 9th May 2005, 07:15 AM

Naga kerises normally can be found on Javanese, Maduran an Balinese pieces. There are instances where the dressing were changed into Malay/Bugis dressing. There are examples at many museums. But a naga-barong, this is the first time I'm seeing. Thanks for sharing...

mykeris · 9th May 2005, 07:32 PM

TQ. It is a pity, this keris is unattended by its owner. I wish I could pursue this keris, I could really get the feel while holding it and couldnt sleep thinking about it, a fantastique keris with hidden Minangkabu-Bugis history and hopefully one day I would be able to own it.

Boedhi Adhitya · 10th May 2005, 04:59 AM

Nice keris, bad rust

You should clean it the first time you have a chance. The keris's shape (dhapur) certainly not the ordinary one. The two deep fullers are intended to raise the middle part of the keris, so the middle part resembles the body and tail of "naga" snake. It is not the sogokan. Perhaps the blade was made in java, but i'm not quite sure before handle the blade by myself

The bugis peoples are well known as the good sailors and merchants, and their ancestor had travel throughout the archipelago.
One more thing, I believe the blade is very finely laminated. You may see the fine layers of iron under magnifier, AFTER you clean it. So, just clean it Mykeris, after you get the permission, of course

Boedhi Adhitya · 10th May 2005, 05:28 AM

Nice keris, bad rust

You should clean it the first time you have the chance. The blade's shape (dhapur) certainly not the ordinary one. The two deep fullers are intended to raise the middle part of the blade, so it resembles the body and tail of the naga snake. It is not the sogokan. Althought it is belongs to bugis family, I believe the blade was made in java , but not quite certain before handle it by myself

The Bugis peoples are well known as the good sailormen and merchants. They had travel throughout the archipelago for a long time, so it was very common for them to brought fine goods from other areas.
One more thing, I believe the blade is finely laminated. You may see the layers of iron under magnifier AFTER you clean it. So, just clean it Mykeris, certainly after you get the permission

mykeris · 10th May 2005, 07:37 PM

TQ, I will do so.

8th May 2005, 05:14 PM	#1
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Keris Pangeran Dipenogoro Sorry guys, the title is just a gimmick . All photos taken through my hand phone camera so pls expect some blurred pictures. How I wish, I could have brought a proper camera but not allowed for the second time. This keris belonged to a very reputable Bugis family, newly dresssed (1960s) in Malay style. This keris has some interesting history to it. To my surprise, I was shiverred to see the blade. Could it be a Javanese blade, A Semenanjung blade, Sumatran Blade or a Bugis blade? I would give age to about 1600s, non laminated blade with two mosters namely a Dragon and another motif down under it, which I could not identify. It has deep fullers to the tip at both sides, just like an ordinary Malela blade. Any comment? Attached Images

10th May 2005, 04:59 AM	#10
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Nice keris, bad rust You should clean it the first time you have a chance. The keris's shape (dhapur) certainly not the ordinary one. The two deep fullers are intended to raise the middle part of the keris, so the middle part resembles the body and tail of "naga" snake. It is not the sogokan. Perhaps the blade was made in java, but i'm not quite sure before handle the blade by myself The bugis peoples are well known as the good sailors and merchants, and their ancestor had travel throughout the archipelago. One more thing, I believe the blade is very finely laminated. You may see the fine layers of iron under magnifier, AFTER you clean it. So, just clean it Mykeris, after you get the permission, of course Last edited by Boedhi Adhitya; 10th May 2005 at 05:10 AM.

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8th May 2005, 05:26 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Would love to see a picture of the entire blade .

8th May 2005, 05:39 PM	#3
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Sorry Rick, I was handicapped .

8th May 2005, 06:32 PM	#4
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	MyKeris, not allowed a real camera for the second time? Handicapped in the taking? Did you take these photos then, on the sly, without the owners permission?

8th May 2005, 08:03 PM	#5
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Nechesh, not as easy as we think, taking photos of certain pusaka of the 'orthodox' elderly Malay community needs long wait, the right time and moment and permission

8th May 2005, 08:39 PM	#6
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Well MyKeris, i, for one, wouldn't imagine it would be easy at all to get permission to photograph the pusaka of anyone in the "orthodox" Malay community. I would think that if you did get permission though, they might at least let you use a real camera to take the picture. I'm not sure you actually answered my question though.

9th May 2005, 07:00 AM	#7
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi mykeris, Is this the keris that u had been telling me before? Im suprised it is a naga. If this is the piece, i can sure say that it is authentic. It seems unusual to have both naga and singa barong on one keris. However, i dont think we can accept this as a malela. Its the wide groove alongside the naga that makes it looks like fullers. Thanks for sharing, however, now that u had shown the keris pictures, in a few years, naga-singa kerises will starting to reach the shores of malaysia from madura. Perhaps someone can help to identify wheather the naga is javaneese or malay. On the other hand, i havent seen any singa on a malay blade.

9th May 2005, 07:15 AM	#8
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Naga kerises normally can be found on Javanese, Maduran an Balinese pieces. There are instances where the dressing were changed into Malay/Bugis dressing. There are examples at many museums. But a naga-barong, this is the first time I'm seeing. Thanks for sharing...

9th May 2005, 07:32 PM	#9
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	TQ. It is a pity, this keris is unattended by its owner. I wish I could pursue this keris, I could really get the feel while holding it and couldnt sleep thinking about it, a fantastique keris with hidden Minangkabu-Bugis history and hopefully one day I would be able to own it.

10th May 2005, 05:28 AM	#11
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Nice keris, bad rust You should clean it the first time you have the chance. The blade's shape (dhapur) certainly not the ordinary one. The two deep fullers are intended to raise the middle part of the blade, so it resembles the body and tail of the naga snake. It is not the sogokan. Althought it is belongs to bugis family, I believe the blade was made in java , but not quite certain before handle it by myself The Bugis peoples are well known as the good sailormen and merchants. They had travel throughout the archipelago for a long time, so it was very common for them to brought fine goods from other areas. One more thing, I believe the blade is finely laminated. You may see the layers of iron under magnifier AFTER you clean it. So, just clean it Mykeris, certainly after you get the permission

10th May 2005, 07:37 PM	#12
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	TQ, I will do so.