SnakeSkin w/ Engraveing Sword

drzzzzz · 24th March 2005, 03:38 AM

Here are some pics that I need some feedback on..The sword measures 27 inches w/ sometype of engraving on both sides..and the scabbard seems to be snakeskin...Any info on this item would be appriciated..Thx

tom hyle · 24th March 2005, 03:47 AM

Unusual sheath and pommel, but I think this fits broadly into the category of kaskara, and will be from the Sudannic region, in Africa. The probably religious etching on the blade and the Turkish/Persian(?) style guard are fairly typical. It may be a version from a tribe or region we don't see many of these from (not neccessarily because they don't have them), or I suppose it may be individualistic. Are there hanging rings on the sheath, or is that a feature of your carpet? What are the two brownish dots on the grip?
Much more interesting than the newish Chinese sword I was expecting from the written description.

Conogre · 24th March 2005, 09:08 AM

Wow!
Is it sharp or does it appear as if it had been sharpened at one time?
The skin is from a desert monitor lizard rather than a snake and looks like it's probably from a Savanah monitor.
The guard appears to be a kaskara, saif or scimitar type sword, while the pommel is distinctly un-kaskara, which usually has a flat disc.
That's a LOT of writing on the blade, the primary reason why I asked about the edge, as it almost looks like it could be a ceremonial or temple sword rather than a fighting weapon.
Again, from just the photos, I don't see any type of a fuller or groove in the blade, nor any thinning towards the edge as would be expected with an oval or diamond profile.
VERY interesting and not an average piece, which of course, means that I'm hooked and curious!**grin**
Mike

tom hyle · 24th March 2005, 02:33 PM

But the pommel does fairly closely resemble those on some fairly common African daggers, though I'm not sure whose/which; knowing that may be the clue.

Yannis · 24th March 2005, 04:00 PM

drzzzzz
I have nothing to add about qualities or origin of the sword but it looks it needs a simple cleaning and definitely to stop the active rust. You can use a WD-40 or something similar to do it. We had a topic about how we clean and protect a sword in this forum, but I cant find it now.

derek · 24th March 2005, 04:05 PM

Hi Allen,

Good to see you followed through and posted this one. It seems that the consensus so far is that is like a kaskara, but with a few un-kaskara like qualities. The guard looks like if was taken from another sword. The pommel reminds me of the daggers from Cameroon with the stitched leather grips.

Isn't the writing down the length of the blade seen frequently on kaskaras? Maybe I'm imaginging it, but I'm sure I've seen a few others.

Also, there is no flare at the tip of the scabbard.

-d

Conogre · 24th March 2005, 05:08 PM

The pommel type being referred to is usually seen on the arm knive of the Tebu of N. Africa if I remember correctly, and honestly, this sword doesn't look like a kaskara to me in anything but general shape.
Many Muslim blades contain writings and verses from the Koran, occasionally the name of the smith and/or owner as well, but on this one it appears as if the entire blade is covered, right up to the edge, which is why I asked about an edge....on a sword used as a weapon, the inlaid writing would seem likely to have been worn off a little each time the piece was sharpened.
Tom's question about the rings for hanging from a baldric are also pertinent, as it could possibly show the difference between a valuable antique and a cobbled together tourist piece that was being passed off.
As I said, I find this piece interesting because of the many unusual qualities, but also just a little suspicious as well.
If that is a purportedly recent aquisition, even the rust could be an indicator as it's highly unlikely that a tribesman would allow it to fall into such a state...rust can indicate much more than just age.
As to whether the Tebu use or used any type of sword themselves, I honestly don't know, but even here, while the shape is correct, I've never seen one with the pommel covered in leather, with it usually being bare iron/steel on the arm knives and the hilt proper wrapped in leather.
At this stage, I hope that you didn't tie up too much in it.
Mike

24th March 2005, 03:38 AM	#1
drzzzzz Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 9	SnakeSkin w/ Engraveing Sword Here are some pics that I need some feedback on..The sword measures 27 inches w/ sometype of engraving on both sides..and the scabbard seems to be snakeskin...Any info on this item would be appriciated..Thx Attached Images

24th March 2005, 03:47 AM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Unusual sheath and pommel, but I think this fits broadly into the category of kaskara, and will be from the Sudannic region, in Africa. The probably religious etching on the blade and the Turkish/Persian(?) style guard are fairly typical. It may be a version from a tribe or region we don't see many of these from (not neccessarily because they don't have them), or I suppose it may be individualistic. Are there hanging rings on the sheath, or is that a feature of your carpet? What are the two brownish dots on the grip? Much more interesting than the newish Chinese sword I was expecting from the written description. Last edited by tom hyle; 24th March 2005 at 05:03 AM.

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24th March 2005, 09:08 AM	#3
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Wow! Is it sharp or does it appear as if it had been sharpened at one time? The skin is from a desert monitor lizard rather than a snake and looks like it's probably from a Savanah monitor. The guard appears to be a kaskara, saif or scimitar type sword, while the pommel is distinctly un-kaskara, which usually has a flat disc. That's a LOT of writing on the blade, the primary reason why I asked about the edge, as it almost looks like it could be a ceremonial or temple sword rather than a fighting weapon. Again, from just the photos, I don't see any type of a fuller or groove in the blade, nor any thinning towards the edge as would be expected with an oval or diamond profile. VERY interesting and not an average piece, which of course, means that I'm hooked and curious!grin Mike

24th March 2005, 02:33 PM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	But the pommel does fairly closely resemble those on some fairly common African daggers, though I'm not sure whose/which; knowing that may be the clue.

24th March 2005, 04:00 PM	#5
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	drzzzzz I have nothing to add about qualities or origin of the sword but it looks it needs a simple cleaning and definitely to stop the active rust. You can use a WD-40 or something similar to do it. We had a topic about how we clean and protect a sword in this forum, but I cant find it now.

24th March 2005, 04:05 PM	#6
derek Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215	Hi Allen, Good to see you followed through and posted this one. It seems that the consensus so far is that is like a kaskara, but with a few un-kaskara like qualities. The guard looks like if was taken from another sword. The pommel reminds me of the daggers from Cameroon with the stitched leather grips. Isn't the writing down the length of the blade seen frequently on kaskaras? Maybe I'm imaginging it, but I'm sure I've seen a few others. Also, there is no flare at the tip of the scabbard. -d

24th March 2005, 05:08 PM	#7
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	The pommel type being referred to is usually seen on the arm knive of the Tebu of N. Africa if I remember correctly, and honestly, this sword doesn't look like a kaskara to me in anything but general shape. Many Muslim blades contain writings and verses from the Koran, occasionally the name of the smith and/or owner as well, but on this one it appears as if the entire blade is covered, right up to the edge, which is why I asked about an edge....on a sword used as a weapon, the inlaid writing would seem likely to have been worn off a little each time the piece was sharpened. Tom's question about the rings for hanging from a baldric are also pertinent, as it could possibly show the difference between a valuable antique and a cobbled together tourist piece that was being passed off. As I said, I find this piece interesting because of the many unusual qualities, but also just a little suspicious as well. If that is a purportedly recent aquisition, even the rust could be an indicator as it's highly unlikely that a tribesman would allow it to fall into such a state...rust can indicate much more than just age. As to whether the Tebu use or used any type of sword themselves, I honestly don't know, but even here, while the shape is correct, I've never seen one with the pommel covered in leather, with it usually being bare iron/steel on the arm knives and the hilt proper wrapped in leather. At this stage, I hope that you didn't tie up too much in it. Mike