Black sea yataghan, again!

eftihis · 5th December 2004, 12:51 AM

Hallo,
I couldnt resist sending the photo i found in the book "The industrial heritage of costume design in Turkey" by Pr. Onder Kucukerman. On page 60, there is the photo showing "clothing of muslim villagers and townspeople", in Trabzon 1870. This city is in Laz area of the black sea, or "Pontos" as we call it in Greek. I have also seen before a photo of a Greek -Christan Laz wearing the same yataghan.
By the way, i am sending some photos of black sea yataghans from the Athens military museum.

ariel · 5th December 2004, 01:33 AM

This is wonderful!
This picture is exactly what was missing from our discussions over the years and represents the final proof of the origin of the mysterious "Laz Bicagi"!

longfellow · 5th December 2004, 03:09 AM

Ummm, not trying to cause trouble, but are we sure that this is 'final proof' of the origin of this type of yataghan? Could it also mean that the weapon had been around long enough to have been adopted as a traditional weapon of the Laz? Or, if the Laz had been joined by peoples caused to relocate because of political changes in the Caucasian regions, would they not have adapted and/or modified their weapons over time? Sorry, just nagging questions.

VANDOO · 5th December 2004, 04:21 AM

VERY GOOD PICTURES THE WARRIOR TO THE RIGHT DEFINITELY HAS ONE BUT THE ONE IN THE CENTER APPEARS TO HAVE A KINJAL , DID THEY USE THEM IN THAT AREA ALSO?. NICE MUSEUM PICTURES , WAS THERE ANY ACCOMPANYING INFORMATION WITH THE SWORDS THERE?

Rivkin · 5th December 2004, 07:03 AM

Yes, these are definitely Laz people. But they never relocated - contrary, Turkey conquered their area. I would guess they adopted turkish yataghans.

Rivkin · 5th December 2004, 07:11 AM

btw eftihis - is it your kindjal I just got off e-bay ?

eftihis · 5th December 2004, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

VERY GOOD PICTURES THE WARRIOR TO THE RIGHT DEFINITELY HAS ONE BUT THE ONE IN THE CENTER APPEARS TO HAVE A KINJAL , DID THEY USE THEM IN THAT AREA ALSO?. NICE MUSEUM PICTURES , WAS THERE ANY ACCOMPANYING INFORMATION WITH THE SWORDS THERE?

The sign in the museum says "turkish swords", but you cannot count on their descriptions, they are very generalised, and lack specific information.
All these belonged to the "Saroglou collection". He was a wealthy officer in the Greek army at the end of 19th and beggining of the 20th century, and created a really huge collection of western european, eastern, Japanese and exotic weapons also. He donated everything uppon his death to the Grek army, and his house is today the officers club of Athens. (his collection stayed there for many years and now in in Athens war museum).

If you like, i can start a new thread sending photos from the collection.
Rivkin, yes, the kindjal you bought was from me, i hope you liked it!

Rivkin · 5th December 2004, 05:29 PM

Concerning kindjals - these guys are kind of georgians, so kindjals are must have.

eftihis: Well, there were certain flustrating moments,
but yes, I like it a lot, we are trying to identify it right now. Would you know how it appeared in Greece ?

5th December 2004, 12:51 AM	#1
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Black sea yataghan, again! Hallo, I couldnt resist sending the photo i found in the book "The industrial heritage of costume design in Turkey" by Pr. Onder Kucukerman. On page 60, there is the photo showing "clothing of muslim villagers and townspeople", in Trabzon 1870. This city is in Laz area of the black sea, or "Pontos" as we call it in Greek. I have also seen before a photo of a Greek -Christan Laz wearing the same yataghan. By the way, i am sending some photos of black sea yataghans from the Athens military museum. Attached Images

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5th December 2004, 01:33 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	This is wonderful! This picture is exactly what was missing from our discussions over the years and represents the final proof of the origin of the mysterious "Laz Bicagi"!

5th December 2004, 03:09 AM	#3
longfellow Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 37	Ummm, not trying to cause trouble, but are we sure that this is 'final proof' of the origin of this type of yataghan? Could it also mean that the weapon had been around long enough to have been adopted as a traditional weapon of the Laz? Or, if the Laz had been joined by peoples caused to relocate because of political changes in the Caucasian regions, would they not have adapted and/or modified their weapons over time? Sorry, just nagging questions.

5th December 2004, 04:21 AM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	VERY GOOD PICTURES THE WARRIOR TO THE RIGHT DEFINITELY HAS ONE BUT THE ONE IN THE CENTER APPEARS TO HAVE A KINJAL , DID THEY USE THEM IN THAT AREA ALSO?. NICE MUSEUM PICTURES , WAS THERE ANY ACCOMPANYING INFORMATION WITH THE SWORDS THERE?

5th December 2004, 07:03 AM	#5
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Yes, these are definitely Laz people. But they never relocated - contrary, Turkey conquered their area. I would guess they adopted turkish yataghans.

5th December 2004, 07:11 AM	#6
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	btw eftihis - is it your kindjal I just got off e-bay ?

5th December 2004, 05:29 PM	#8
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Concerning kindjals - these guys are kind of georgians, so kindjals are must have. eftihis: Well, there were certain flustrating moments, but yes, I like it a lot, we are trying to identify it right now. Would you know how it appeared in Greece ?