South Seas club?

Tim Simmons · 29th March 2025, 02:49 PM

New ebay purchase, the only bidder, good or bad? Went for at as it was not offered at a fortune making price so common these days. Listed as an early 1800s South Sea Club by a militaria dealer. Not wanting to tar them all with the same brush but not usually the best when it comes to ethno stuff sure you know what I mean. However I am happy to believe the dealer may well be correct about South Seas. In my limited handling of clubs I do not see it as African. I suspect it one of the myriad of club forms from Vanuatu of which some are really good and other like this so,so. Saying that it does handle very nicely. The main reason for posting here is how it is made. I hummed and hawed for days other the photos curious as to why it looked part turned and part hand carved. Seeing that some circular elements were quite off circular I went for it. On receiving it is clear that the club has indeed been part turned. This was a surprise as I thought wood turning was not a practise in Oceania. On googling pre colonial wood turning in the south seas it turns out that wood was turned by some peoples. A bow can be used as turning motion. I suspect the irregular circular turning on my club may be from a lack of a stable tool rest. I think it is clear that a metal tool has been used on the club. The two holes are from boring insect, catch the right position and you can just look through and see that the insect has eaten a curved tunnel. Just the head and tail stock {our words} impressions were very interesting. 60cm long.

Jim McDougall · 8th April 2025, 08:43 PM

Tim, I cannot believe (or maybe I can) that NOBODY has bothered to respond to this! It seems to be a trend these days. Once upon a time there were many guys who were anxious to share expertise, or at least offer observations or positive comments.

I know less than zip on war clubs, but I am willing to at least try to get some clue, so as I dont have any resources at hand, I looked online.

My nearest guess on this would be Tongan, as they seem more inclined to simpler design, this is like a cross between a billy club and a baseball bat but with cylindrical head. From that brief look, if this is the case it seems Tongan are quite valuable compared to other Oceanic. These pictured are more ornate longer etc. but seemed a good start.

I'll look further, interest piqued!

1800 views in 9 days????not a peep? You'd think anyone who keyed to this thread and topic might know something.

Jim McDougall · 9th April 2025, 03:25 PM

The more I look at this, IMO it may well be a police billy club. It is pretty austere for tribal items and the rimmed base (?).
Hard to find info on those.

Marc M. · 9th April 2025, 03:39 PM

Cool stuff, looks very functional and used. Can't say anything meaningful about it unfortunately.

Regards
Marc

Jim McDougall · 9th April 2025, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc M.

Cool stuff, looks very functional and used. Can't say anything meaningful about it unfortunately.

Regards
Marc

Thanks for the note anyway Marc! Its nice to have at least some input or acknowledgement on posts. The return rate on threads is thousands to one as far as response. Even if someone does not add key info, a kind word is also valuable. I know nothing on these....but Im curious....and looking . Hopefully an answer will turn up.

Best
Jim

Jim McDougall · 9th April 2025, 04:18 PM

Going through all I can find on police billy clubs, night sticks, etc. not referenced in use before c. 1848; by 1956 called policemans club. As far as I can see these were notably shorter and while the carved furrows at the handle are compellingly similar to those on these shorter batons , no evidence of the enlarged cylindrical head area.

Back to tribal.

29th March 2025, 02:49 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,841	South Seas club? New ebay purchase, the only bidder, good or bad? Went for at as it was not offered at a fortune making price so common these days. Listed as an early 1800s South Sea Club by a militaria dealer. Not wanting to tar them all with the same brush but not usually the best when it comes to ethno stuff sure you know what I mean. However I am happy to believe the dealer may well be correct about South Seas. In my limited handling of clubs I do not see it as African. I suspect it one of the myriad of club forms from Vanuatu of which some are really good and other like this so,so. Saying that it does handle very nicely. The main reason for posting here is how it is made. I hummed and hawed for days other the photos curious as to why it looked part turned and part hand carved. Seeing that some circular elements were quite off circular I went for it. On receiving it is clear that the club has indeed been part turned. This was a surprise as I thought wood turning was not a practise in Oceania. On googling pre colonial wood turning in the south seas it turns out that wood was turned by some peoples. A bow can be used as turning motion. I suspect the irregular circular turning on my club may be from a lack of a stable tool rest. I think it is clear that a metal tool has been used on the club. The two holes are from boring insect, catch the right position and you can just look through and see that the insect has eaten a curved tunnel. Just the head and tail stock {our words} impressions were very interesting. 60cm long. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 29th March 2025 at 02:53 PM. Reason: checking

8th April 2025, 08:43 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,177	Tim, I cannot believe (or maybe I can) that NOBODY has bothered to respond to this! It seems to be a trend these days. Once upon a time there were many guys who were anxious to share expertise, or at least offer observations or positive comments. I know less than zip on war clubs, but I am willing to at least try to get some clue, so as I dont have any resources at hand, I looked online. My nearest guess on this would be Tongan, as they seem more inclined to simpler design, this is like a cross between a billy club and a baseball bat but with cylindrical head. From that brief look, if this is the case it seems Tongan are quite valuable compared to other Oceanic. These pictured are more ornate longer etc. but seemed a good start. I'll look further, interest piqued! 1800 views in 9 days????not a peep? You'd think anyone who keyed to this thread and topic might know something. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 8th April 2025 at 08:58 PM.

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9th April 2025, 03:25 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,177	The more I look at this, IMO it may well be a police billy club. It is pretty austere for tribal items and the rimmed base (?). Hard to find info on those.

9th April 2025, 03:39 PM	#4
Marc M. Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Belgium Posts: 256	Cool stuff, looks very functional and used. Can't say anything meaningful about it unfortunately. Regards Marc

9th April 2025, 04:18 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,177	Going through all I can find on police billy clubs, night sticks, etc. not referenced in use before c. 1848; by 1956 called policemans club. As far as I can see these were notably shorter and while the carved furrows at the handle are compellingly similar to those on these shorter batons , no evidence of the enlarged cylindrical head area. Back to tribal.