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31st October 2024, 01:40 PM | #1 |
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Two uninvited keris for comments
I have these two uninvited Keris. I have them but not out of my intention. I didn't purchase them, but they were sent to me by 'mistake'.
One of them has a horn hilt, I don't know what kind of horn. In the begaining, I thought it was wood. The other has a very good fragrance and it's long-lasting. |
31st October 2024, 01:40 PM | #2 |
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The horn hilt
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31st October 2024, 04:18 PM | #3 |
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nice krises
A Javanese and a Bugis kris , my guess is that the horn hilt is the Bugis? In that case it is most probably buffalo horn. I have a Bugis with a buffalo horn hilt. |
31st October 2024, 04:44 PM | #4 | |
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There is another horn figural hilt, can you help me to ID if it's buffalo or rhinoceros?This one looks better than the Bugis one |
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31st October 2024, 04:48 PM | #5 |
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I have no idea why the pictures I post are all flipped and repeated
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31st October 2024, 05:29 PM | #6 |
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I don't think the second hilt (very nice carving indeed!) is Rhino, to me looks like this may be some form of albino water buffalo (which is my favourite material I have a few in very different shades of colour )
From reading about rhino hilt, often that looks like " wood" to many observers. It tends to be mat and not shiny. I will quote you some threads where you can see examples of people asking questions such as yours http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21327 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28853 This hilt you show...I think there is a strong possibility that this too *as another one that you have shown before) is not a Kris hilt but a Betel nut chisel |
31st October 2024, 09:24 PM | #7 | |
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The Javanese keris is a nice example of a Mahesa keris. I think the dhapur might be closest to Kebo Teki, but others might have other ideas. I agree that the other one is a Bugis keris. Not sure of the exact origins though. So, do you at least know where these "mistake" keris came from and do you have to return them? |
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31st October 2024, 10:01 PM | #8 |
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For the kebo style keris I'd be inclined to give it as Kebo Dengen Luk Sembilan.
But there is a problem in that Kebo Dengen should be Luk Lima & it should not have an ada-ada. In any case, the keris has good age. Both these keris are nice, middle of the road, collectable items. |
31st October 2024, 10:55 PM | #9 | |
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And when i google Kebo Dengen i am finding lots of keris that don't even seem to be in the Kebo family (i.e. no elongated gandik). So go figure, eh? |
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31st October 2024, 11:55 PM | #10 |
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Exactly so David.
Even the highly respected Surakarta Pakem book is at variance with popular opinion in many respects. The whole thing is this:- with keris there is no universal standard that can be applied across the board. My own background is firmly fixed in Surakarta ideas & practices, but this does not mean that those values are universal, it only means that the values & influences of the senior royal house of Jawa set a certain standard in places under its influence. In other places different values can & do apply. This widespread variation is something that perhaps makes it more important to understand --- or try to understand --- the societal & cultural values attached to the keris, rather than to try to understand the physical values. Within the Jawa-Bali nexus, there is widespread similarity in societal & cultural values that relate to the keris, whereas there is wide variance in the physical values. |
1st November 2024, 05:12 AM | #11 | |
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Kebo Dengen Sembilan |
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1st November 2024, 05:40 AM | #12 |
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kebo is low level Javanese --- ngoko --- for water buffalo, high level --- krama (kromo) --- is maesa/maisa/mahesa, and the high level is sometimes used for this form also; Bahasa Indonesia/ Malay for "kebo" is "kerbau".
dengen is a tricky one, because it is Old Javanese, the form of Javanese in general use before the later Mataram period, & it means friend/servant/slave/acquaintance, dengen is not a misspelling or variant spelling of "dengan" which is BI/Malay for "with". sembilan is BI/Malay for the number 9. |
1st November 2024, 06:55 AM | #13 | |
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1st November 2024, 05:11 AM | #14 | |
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