Tortuga

urbanspaceman · 22nd February 2020, 08:44 PM

Hello Folks. Yes, I'm still alive; still researching the Shotley Bridge saga - but picking up a few interesting swords along the way; I didn't start off as a collector, but could not resist the odd piece that came my way while I was desperately searching for a 100% bona fide Shotley Bridge sword (i.e. one with the name on the blade, because contention exists in regard to the early use of the bushy tailed fox) which I finally found. Serendipitously, it is the sword off the front cover of Richardson's book on SB: which was the book that first got me interested in this affair.
Anyway, to business:
I recently bought this re-hilted transitional rapier and I remain absolutely puzzled with regard to the script in the fullers.
On the one side we have: xxx VIVA xxx ONOSA xxx RAINHA xxx
and on the other side: xxx DE xxx TORTUGA xxx
I've established it is Portuguese and means 'God save the Queen'... 'Of Tortuga'. At least I'm told that is what it means.
Trouble is, Tortuga never had a queen, and neither did Portugal during its ownership of the island.
Fernando, I was hoping you might wade in here with your specialised knowledge; but equally, I am also hoping there might be other info out there amongst the cognoscenti.

David R · 22nd February 2020, 11:26 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVr2hbE6aW0

urbanspaceman · 22nd February 2020, 11:55 PM

Thanks David; old friends; fond memories.

kronckew · 23rd February 2020, 12:41 PM

Anne Dieu-leVeut of Tortuga, 1660-1710, a Pirate Queen?

urbanspaceman · 23rd February 2020, 03:35 PM

Thank-you very much for this; I certainly never found it, despite endless searching online.
I've now read a few Google entries on this lassie: great stuff - a true Boys' Own adventure story personified... for girls. I always felt Geena Davis was a myth too far, but perhaps I was wrong; very easy on the eye though.
So, what does everyone think? (Of the blade - not Geena Davis.)
Main problem: where does Portuguese come into it?
Obviously it is not one of her blades, although it is a mite short for a trans' rap': 32inches compared to a similar style and period trans' rap' I own (also re-hilted - I think: see pic) which is 39inches.
Of course, if it was for maritime use, then the shorter length is virtually obligatory.
Does anyone recognize what is left of the maker mark; and the letter R? First glance I thought the Wundes family, but closer examination and out-referencing (Jim McDougall) proved it is much more likely the top of a shield.
Exciting stuff this!

kronckew · 23rd February 2020, 06:30 PM

There have been a number of female pirates over the centuries. See also

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_piracy

Some are better looking than Geena. Have always thought she looks a bit odd.

Have not looked into tranny or drag queen pirates. their personal recreational habits, other than sharp pointy metal things, are non of my business.

22nd February 2020, 08:44 PM	#1
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 532	Tortuga Hello Folks. Yes, I'm still alive; still researching the Shotley Bridge saga - but picking up a few interesting swords along the way; I didn't start off as a collector, but could not resist the odd piece that came my way while I was desperately searching for a 100% bona fide Shotley Bridge sword (i.e. one with the name on the blade, because contention exists in regard to the early use of the bushy tailed fox) which I finally found. Serendipitously, it is the sword off the front cover of Richardson's book on SB: which was the book that first got me interested in this affair. Anyway, to business: I recently bought this re-hilted transitional rapier and I remain absolutely puzzled with regard to the script in the fullers. On the one side we have: xxx VIVA xxx ONOSA xxx RAINHA xxx and on the other side: xxx DE xxx TORTUGA xxx I've established it is Portuguese and means 'God save the Queen'... 'Of Tortuga'. At least I'm told that is what it means. Trouble is, Tortuga never had a queen, and neither did Portugal during its ownership of the island. Fernando, I was hoping you might wade in here with your specialised knowledge; but equally, I am also hoping there might be other info out there amongst the cognoscenti. Attached Images

22nd February 2020, 11:55 PM	#3
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 532	Legs and Co Thanks David; old friends; fond memories.

23rd February 2020, 03:35 PM	#5
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 532	what God wants Thank-you very much for this; I certainly never found it, despite endless searching online. I've now read a few Google entries on this lassie: great stuff - a true Boys' Own adventure story personified... for girls. I always felt Geena Davis was a myth too far, but perhaps I was wrong; very easy on the eye though. So, what does everyone think? (Of the blade - not Geena Davis.) Main problem: where does Portuguese come into it? Obviously it is not one of her blades, although it is a mite short for a trans' rap': 32inches compared to a similar style and period trans' rap' I own (also re-hilted - I think: see pic) which is 39inches. Of course, if it was for maritime use, then the shorter length is virtually obligatory. Does anyone recognize what is left of the maker mark; and the letter R? First glance I thought the Wundes family, but closer examination and out-referencing (Jim McDougall) proved it is much more likely the top of a shield. Exciting stuff this! Attached Images

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22nd February 2020, 11:26 PM	#2
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVr2hbE6aW0

23rd February 2020, 12:41 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	Anne Dieu-leVeut of Tortuga, 1660-1710, a Pirate Queen?

23rd February 2020, 06:30 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	There have been a number of female pirates over the centuries. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_piracy Some are better looking than Geena. Have always thought she looks a bit odd. Have not looked into tranny or drag queen pirates. their personal recreational habits, other than sharp pointy metal things, are non of my business.