The so-called " cobra swords"

ariel · 21st November 2019, 07:12 PM

On pp. 109-10 and 121, 123 Elgood shows peculiar S. Indian swords with disk-like widening of the blade by the handle.
They are popularly called " cobra swords" by the Westerners, even though they have nothing to do with the snake: the widened disk is a representation of Chakra, a weapon of Shiva.
Also, I am showing a S. Indian katar with identical feaure, confirming the S. Indian origin.
However, similar blades are found in the NW India, the so-called Pahari Kingdoms, established by the Hindu Rajputs escaping Muslim control over them.
Many of them carry typical Afghani Pulwar handles, and are usually defined as Indo-Afghani swords. However, some carry very "Indian" handles, without cup-like pommels and down-turned quillons and some have a mix of both features.

Any idea re. several questions:
1. Can the S. Indian and NW Indian examples be separated based on the configuration of their handles?

2. Could some of S. Indian examples have replacement handles, ? Among the examples I show there are " pulwar", " tulwar" and likely "Deccani" ones?

Kmaddock · 22nd November 2019, 09:38 AM

Thanks for the post
If i ever saw one of these for sale I would have put it down as a lord of the rings fantasy item.
The Katar looks terribly heavy to be practical but nice looking all the same
Regards
Ken

Jens Nordlunde · 22nd November 2019, 03:22 PM

In Hindu Arms and Ritual Robert Elgood seem to think that a sword of this kind, with an Afghan hilt is a marriage.

ariel · 22nd November 2019, 03:43 PM

Jens,
That would suggest that Rajput " kings" who moved to Himachal Pradesh just made their swords look more local and the term " Indo-Afghani swords" might be a misnomer. This is supported ( albeit weakly) by the variety of handles used. Sword handles in India were replaced like worn shoes.
The possibility #2 mentioned earlier seems quite likely.

Jens Nordlunde · 22nd November 2019, 04:33 PM

Ariel,
What shall I say? The best answer is, I dont know. I have seen these swords in pictures, and the one on exhibition in Copenhagen, at The David Collection in 1982, but I have never researched these swords, as I have never owned one.

Quote. That would suggest that Rajput " kings" who moved to Himachal Pradesh just made their swords look more local and the term " Indo-Afghani swords" might be a misnomer. Unquote.

Which time era do you refer to?

mariusgmioc · 22nd November 2019, 05:34 PM

Very interesting topic!

What strikes me at these swords is the unmistakenly Indian construction of the blade (with chiseled central ridge and reinforced edges).

21st November 2019, 07:12 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The so-called " cobra swords" On pp. 109-10 and 121, 123 Elgood shows peculiar S. Indian swords with disk-like widening of the blade by the handle. They are popularly called " cobra swords" by the Westerners, even though they have nothing to do with the snake: the widened disk is a representation of Chakra, a weapon of Shiva. Also, I am showing a S. Indian katar with identical feaure, confirming the S. Indian origin. However, similar blades are found in the NW India, the so-called Pahari Kingdoms, established by the Hindu Rajputs escaping Muslim control over them. Many of them carry typical Afghani Pulwar handles, and are usually defined as Indo-Afghani swords. However, some carry very "Indian" handles, without cup-like pommels and down-turned quillons and some have a mix of both features. Any idea re. several questions: 1. Can the S. Indian and NW Indian examples be separated based on the configuration of their handles? 2. Could some of S. Indian examples have replacement handles, ? Among the examples I show there are " pulwar", " tulwar" and likely "Deccani" ones? Attached Images

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22nd November 2019, 09:38 AM	#2
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Thanks for the post If i ever saw one of these for sale I would have put it down as a lord of the rings fantasy item. The Katar looks terribly heavy to be practical but nice looking all the same Regards Ken

22nd November 2019, 03:22 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	In Hindu Arms and Ritual Robert Elgood seem to think that a sword of this kind, with an Afghan hilt is a marriage.

22nd November 2019, 03:43 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Jens, That would suggest that Rajput " kings" who moved to Himachal Pradesh just made their swords look more local and the term " Indo-Afghani swords" might be a misnomer. This is supported ( albeit weakly) by the variety of handles used. Sword handles in India were replaced like worn shoes. The possibility #2 mentioned earlier seems quite likely.

22nd November 2019, 04:33 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ariel, What shall I say? The best answer is, I dont know. I have seen these swords in pictures, and the one on exhibition in Copenhagen, at The David Collection in 1982, but I have never researched these swords, as I have never owned one. Quote. That would suggest that Rajput " kings" who moved to Himachal Pradesh just made their swords look more local and the term " Indo-Afghani swords" might be a misnomer. Unquote. Which time era do you refer to?

22nd November 2019, 05:34 PM	#6
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	Very interesting topic! What strikes me at these swords is the unmistakenly Indian construction of the blade (with chiseled central ridge and reinforced edges).