Meteorite again

[Seerp Visser]

In many Keris meteoritic material is/was applied as pamor material, without adding other nickel containing material.

In other Keris less meteoritic material is added. I found information about an Empu adding five grams meteorite only.
In those Keris the required quantity of pamor material is complemented by other material(s).

Do our members have more information about weight of meteorite added into Keris?

When smaller quantities are added, does the Empu place this piece or these pieces meteoritic material in a predefined location in the blade?

And what mystic power expects an Empu from more or less meteorite?

[mariusgmioc]

Interesting question! I hope you will get an equally interesting answer!

[Jean]

I am seriously doubting that meteoric materials was or is added in many kris blades but Alan will probably tell us more about it
I own several krisses supposedly containing meteoric materials according to the seller (see pic) but I take it with a pinch of salt...
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, I'm just a wee bit sick & tired of this meteorite thing.

Yes, meteoritic material was used in some keris in Central Jawa. It is perhaps reasonable to hypothesise that meteorite was used in a few other keris prior to the Prambanan Fall. But it is not possible to know with any certainty which keris it was used in, unless one actually put it there oneself, or saw meteoritic material, that was known positively to be meteoritic material placed into the forging that was then further processed into a keris.

You are absolutely correct Jean:-meteoritic material is not known to have been used in many keris , but in only a very limited number of keris produced in Central Jawa from the end of the 18th century up until the present.

Seerp, I have used meteoritic material in blades, I have used it in knife blades, I have consolidated meteoritic material into a small billets that were subsequently used as the contrasting material in several keris. In both the knife blades and the keris blades the quantity of material used was not weighed, this would be without any point at all. The quantity of meteoritic material used was judged by eye, in exactly the same way that other contrasting materials are judged:-

sufficient is sufficient, too little is not enough, too much is unnecessary.

There are no sets of scales in a forge, but there is a smith, and that smith has the experience necessary to make judgements.

I know of no tradition that requires meteoritic material to be placed in any particular place in a blade. Frankly, and taking account of the way in which pamor is made, I can see no way of placing meteoritic material in any particular place, other than by adding it at the end of the forging process as pamor tambal, and that would seem to be counter to the philosophy involved, and most certainly not at all possible using the techniques that were used in Central Jawa to turn meteoritic material into pamor.

In respect of what the maker expects from the addition of meteoritic material to a keris, I would most gently suggest that this is the wrong question, and even if the right question were to be asked, I would not be prepared to answer it.

What I can do is to say that the reason I added it was because I had been told it could not be done and that meteorite in blades was something that was part legend, part myth, and a tiny part reality. The secret had been lost.

This was in the second half of the 1970's. Bill Moran in the USA was making knife blades using meteoritic material. The "Keris Revolution" had not yet started in Jawa, there had been a few little scratchings around the edges but it was to be a few more years before craftsmen were actually producing keris and making a living from this. If Bill Moran could weld meteoritic material, so could I. Now anybody who can make a chocolate cake and who has a gas forge can weld and use meteoritic material. It is just another material. No big deal.

[David]

Thank you Alan.
I don't know that i can say what mystic power as Empu expects from more or less meteorite. As Alan points out, that is probably the wrong question really. But i think i can say what a keris dealer might expect and it is measured in rupiah, dollars and cents.

[A. G. Maisey]

That's cruel David, purely cruel.

This can be downloaded if you are able to push the right buttons:-


"The Magical Life of Things" --- Margaret J. Wiener


It is a nice little addition to furthering an understanding of the keris, nothing new, not an expose of hidden knowledge, just a simple, commonsense commentary.

Pauzan Pusposukadgo used to believe that much of the "mystical/magical" belief surrounding the keris was due to the involvement of the Dutch. I personally think that Dutch influence was only one factor.

The people of Jawa & Bali do understand the world in a way that differs from the way in which people from European based societies understand the world, particularly post-industrial European based cultures.

Not only is understanding different, but the societal system of behaviour is different. Javanese people will normally try to provide an answer to a question that they sense the questioner expects, not necessarily an accurate answer, but one that will please the questioner.

The keris in some circumstance could be considered to be a "magically charged" object, but that "magic" cannot be understood unless one understands the Javanese mode of thought and World View.