Scottish court sword?

[Ron Anderson]

Dear Collectors/Enthusiasts/Experts

I need help with this recent purchase. It appears to be a Scottish Court Sword. At least, that's my interpretation of what appears to be a thistle motif on both the hilt and the frog button. The blade is plain, no inscriptions. Surprisingly, it has no tip. It has a rounded end.

It is a nice looking sword. The scabbard is broken but still there. It seems old - 19th century certainly.But it has a boat-shaped guard. The design of the hilt is decidedly French rococo. Could it be older? And what is it?

[Ron Anderson]

I had a random thought. Could it be Japanese?

Or is that just crazy talk?

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ron,
This appears to be a cast version of an 18th c. smallsword and following in degree some of the decorative themes, however this is most likely of 19th century or into early 20th. It seems quite possible that this might be a theatrical or societal accoutrement, and the thistle itself does not necessarily signal Scottish association.
The smallsword use actually was in decline by civilians by the end of the 18th century, and heavier versions did remain in use militarily by officers for longer. Most court swords had adopted neoclassic styles and themes, but the use of casting rather than the art of chiseling became more common, so the court sword idea is in degree well placed. The use of this type of rebated swordblade does not seem consistant with court swords, however the quaility of the mounts and scabbard are somewhat compelling. The idea of this being a 'societal'or fraternal type accoutrement would be better served if there were some type of symbolism or markings beyond the decorative motif.

Another interesting piece, and nicely made!

All best regards,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ron Anderson

I had a random thought. Could it be Japanese?

Or is that just crazy talk?

No such thing as crazy talk (usually around here, all ideas random or otherwise are welcomed!!! We never know when those random thoughts might lead to important clues!!!
"...discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has
seen, and thinking what no one else has thought".
-Albert Szent-Gyorgi (1893-1986)

[Dmitry]

This is a contemporary replica of the mid-18th century boat-hilted small-sword. The decorations are quite typical of the Rococo style.

[Ron Anderson]

Well thank you Jim and Dmitry

It was among a group of Masonic swords. So I believe, Jim, that you are probably right in saying it is societal/fraternal. And perhaps an earlier masonic type.

I recognised it as a replica of a French-style 18th century smallsword and thought it might be a court sword. Of course, you're right in pointing out that court swords do not have cast hilts of this type.

It has what I can only describe as a kind of rounded blade profile, as other masonic swords do.

It is quite old. It's not of recent manufacture. Too old to be a movie prop, too good to be a theatre prop.

The lack of tip is surprising, but it fits into the scabbard perfectly. Scabbard and sword are a clear match.

There are no swords made in Australia. All are imported. Among the group was a fairly tacky toledo sword in Masonic style. So perhaps the fact that it's not etched is owing in some way to it being an import.

Incidentally, I bought another masonic sword among the group. It had the owners name inscribed but was otherwise a completely plain blade. More recent than this sword, but with a nice ivory handle.

So I guess not all Masonic swords, certainly here in Australia anyway, have Masonic symbols inscribed on them.

Thanks for your help.

Ron

[Jim McDougall]

The area of Masonic swords is notably vague in certain respects, particularly with those used ceremonially such as those held by the Tyler. While the regalia swords are well established with Masonic symbolism reflecting rank, lodge etc. that of the Tyler is not personally or specifically identified, at least in the examples I have seen.
By tradition, it seems that these swords are intended to have the wavy blade, but this seems superceded by instances where other types of sword with either historical, traditional or local importance associations take place as this key weapon to the lodge. In the U.S. there are various examples of Civil War sabres, rehilted versions with Mexican blades with 'Spanish Motto', presentation swords of military officers with significant service and lodge members etc.

The rebated blade corresponds to many traditional bearing swords or swords of state in Europe and in England with these type blade tips....these are also similar to 'executioner' swords, which also are grouped with these type swords. Perhaps the squared tip reflects this type importance in use in a Masonic or fraternal situation, and as noted, would not necessarily have been marked.

For those out there who are Freemasons, please forgive my speculative description of the Tylers sword in Masonic tradition, which is as close as I understand and hopefully at least nominally correct.

Returning to Ron's observation on the thistle, possibly if this is indeed a Masonic sword, perhaps the Scottish Rite might be surmised?