Dapur of this Javanese keris?

[BluErf]

Dear forumnites,

Not sure if I have asked the question in this forum before, but can anyone tell me what dapur is this keris? Thanks.

[ganjawulung]

Seven luks, with details of gandhik 'lugas' (without sekar kacang), tikel alis, pejetan, sraweyan, ada-ada in the middle of the blade. Then IMHO, it could be a "jaran guyang", but had been modified a little bit. Because a "jaran guyang" should have greneng, but this could have been modified. There is also trace of change on the 'wadidang' side above the 'should be' greneng. It should be no trace of "ron dha nunut"...

The naming of the dhapur itself, literally means "horse" (jaran) "taken a bath" (guyang, this word is used especially for animal, not for human)...

GANJAWULUNG

[A. G. Maisey]

Kai Wee, would it be possible for us to see the top of the gonjo?

The wadidang seems to have a series of notches cut into it. It looks peculiar. Can you see what has happened there?

Is the gandik as steeply angled as it appears to be in the photos?

[ganjawulung]

Yes, steep angle ("mboto rubuh") at the gandhik -- and even steeper and visually a little bit shorter (proportion) than usual javanese gandhik, is questionable. Just for comparison, the illustration of dhapur Jaran Guyang (from Mr Haryono Guritno's Keris Jawa book)....

[A. G. Maisey]

Pak Ganja, my query was addressed to Kai Wee:- only he can confirm if that gandik is as steeply angled as it appears to be, because only he has access to the physical keris.

I disagree that it is

"---visually a little bit shorter (proportion) than usual javanese gandhik---"


in my opinion it is completely within the parameters for length for a gandik in a Javanese keris, always dependent upon blumbangan form and the level of skill of the maker.

Are you applying the term "mboto rubuh" to the gandik????

I can understand the logic, but it seems a rather unusual usage. Has this usage now become general in some circles?

I don't believe I've ever heard it applied to gandik, only to blumbangan, wherein we have a mboto rubuh in , say, a Pengging keris, and mboto adeg in a Majapahit keris.

[ganjawulung]

I apologize, Alan. Then, after Kai Wee' response, I will respond to your post. Thanks a lot...

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

...in my opinion it is completely within the parameters for length for a gandik in a Javanese keris, always dependent upon blumbangan form and the level of skill of the maker..

I've asked someone, of course the more knowledgeable person on keris than me, then yes, Alan, I should agree with you on this.. Even that from the peculiar style of luks, it is not impossible that this kind of luks is supposed to be a "pengging" style. Also from the characteristic of the blade, "wilah nglimpa" (I don't know to translate this in English), this blade also has one characteristic of "pengging" style too... (although some part of the blade have changing, i.e the notches at the wadidang...)

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Are you applying the term "mboto rubuh" to the gandik????
I can understand the logic, but it seems a rather unusual usage. Has this usage now become general in some circles?
I don't believe I've ever heard it applied to gandik, only to blumbangan, wherein we have a mboto rubuh in, say, a Pengging keris, and mboto adeg in a Majapahit keris.

The classification of "mboto rubuh" (falling brick? Correct it if I'm mistaken) and "mboto ngadeg" or "amboto ngadeg" (upright, errect brick) applied in kerises with "gandhik lugas" or no sekar kacang in the "front face" of a keris. And Yes, as Mr Haryono Guritno wrote also in his book "Keris Jawa" (page 166) "amboto rubuh" and "amboto ngadeg" is used for mentioning types (ragam) of "pejetan" or "blumbangan" form of a keris.
On applying the term for gandhik? Yes, some people (might be mistakenly) use this term -- because everytime if we look at kerises with "gandhik lugas", we then automatically classify the kerises, whether they are "amboto ngadeg" or "amboto rubuh"... This "mistakenly usage" also mentioned in Mr Harsrinuksmo's book of Ensiklopedi Keris. Even, Mr Harsrinuksmo described (page 165) that "...khusus untuk gandik yang polos" (especially for gandhik without sekar kacang) "there are two types, those are "amboto rubuh" or "amboto sumende" (leaning brick), and "amboto ngadeg"...
On the meaning of "gandhik" itself, Mr Harsrinuksmo even described in his book that it means literally, as millstone (long and cylindric form of stone, for crushing...).
Why I quote the two writers? As I'm not an expertise on keris, I quote the more knowledgeable people than me. AFAIK, both of them have and had involved so intense in keris world for so long...

Thanks Alan, for your sharing...

GANJAWULUNG