Ilwoon scabbard

Flavio · 1st September 2007, 05:13 PM

Hi all, I wonder if the Congo Boys (

) can show a detailed picture of a ilwoon Kuba scabbard that were made by raffia. At the moment I remember only the pics from Spring's (attached). I ask because I was able to find some pieces of very old raffia clothes (100 years old) and so I'd like to made one for my Ilwoon. Thank you all for the help

tom hyle · 6th September 2007, 04:26 AM

Best of luck. Can we see a pic of your ilwoon? Pleeease

????

Tim Simmons · 6th September 2007, 08:30 PM

Make one for me while you are at it. Did we not see some of your mothers needle work making little booties for your treasures? What is the raffia that you have like?

VANDOO · 6th September 2007, 09:07 PM

IN YOUR PICTURE TO THE RIGHT IS THAT HIS SWORD IN SOME SORT OF A SACK HANGING ON HIS LEFT SHOULDER? IF IT IS IT WOULD BE DESIGNED TO BE EASILY REMOVED AND THE TOP OF THE POMMEL EXPOSED FOR GRASPING AND DRAWING THE SWORD PERHAPS THROWING THE SACK TO THE GROUND. GOOD LUCK

Flavio · 7th September 2007, 07:04 PM

Hi all, I will post some pics of my Ilwoon soon. Yes Tim you remember right

, and will post also some pics of the the raffia cloth. Hello Barry, yes it's some kind of sack, but the pics are not so clear. Thank you

Flavio · 8th September 2007, 09:47 AM

Hi all, I found also this picture from "De fer et de Fierté". In this one the scabbard seems made of leather?!?!?!?!?!?!?

VANDOO · 27th September 2007, 04:07 AM

I HAVE BEEN LOOKING AROUND IN MY STUFF AS I REMEMBERED SEEING A SWORD OF THIS TYPE. I FOUND ONE IT IS MADE JUST LIKE THE SWORD BUT IS MADE ENTIRELY FROM WOOD IT WOULD STILL BE A DANGEROUS WEAPON BUT NOT AS GOOD FOR CUTTING AS STEEL. I WILL CONTINUE TO SEE IF I HAVE ANY MORE EXAMPLES.

I TOOK SOME PICTURES BUT THE WAY MY COMPUTER IS SET UP ALL MY PHOTOS DOWNLOAD INTO ADOBE PHOTOSHOP AND I HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO GET ACCESS TO ANY OF MY PHOTOS TO EMAIL OR POST THEM OR ANYTHING ELSE. I HAVE JUST LEARNED THAT IF YOU DON'T BUY SOMETHING FROM THEM EVERY 60 DAYS THEY START DELETING YOUR PHOTOS I WAS WONDERING WHERE MY PHOTOS WERE GOING. ITS ESPECIALLY A SHAME WITH FAMILY PHOTOS AND VACATION PHOTOS. SO I AM ONCE AGAIN WITH A CAMERA BUT NO WAY TO DOWNLOAD THE PICTURES INTO MY COMPUTER WITHOUT GETTING THEM STUCK IN ADOBIE PHOTOSHOP UNTILL THEY DELETE THEM. A FINE FREE SERVICE THAT IS

Luc LEFEBVRE · 27th September 2007, 11:06 PM

To be complete, your sword needs a sort of iron ring at the top of the handle wich contains cauries or teeth fixed with a natural resin.
Scabbard are rare, I know 2 in a belgian collection.
Luc

Flavio · 29th September 2007, 02:22 PM

Hi Luc, yes you are right , but i'm not interested to replace the ferrule.... and maybe I will not make a scabbard... it's too hard to find good pics

Luc LEFEBVRE · 29th September 2007, 06:57 PM

Beauté Fatale, page 229.
A wood Ilwoon or Ilondo with scabbard called ngum ilwoon.
Luc

Flavio · 29th September 2007, 07:14 PM

AHHHHHH, THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH LUC!!!!!!

Flavio · 29th September 2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

I FOUND ONE IT IS MADE JUST LIKE THE SWORD BUT IS MADE ENTIRELY FROM WOOD IT WOULD STILL BE A DANGEROUS WEAPON BUT NOT AS GOOD FOR CUTTING AS STEEL

Hello Barry I'd like to see some pics when you can

The wooden ilwoon were used in ritual when there is the new moon (if i'm right) when were prohibited to use and touch metal.

Jim McDougall · 30th September 2007, 07:22 AM

I am wondering about the hilt form on these 'ilwoon', if anything is known on the significance of the markings typically carved into them and earliest examples of the form.
While free association at its best, I cannot resist noting the similarity of the pommel and cap or stem on the examples I have seen of 'ilwoon' resembling those of talwars and paluours. It has been suggested that edged weapons from Portuguese and Dutch traders in 16th c. influenced the work of Congolese smiths, who emulated the foreign forms. Is it possible that weapons such as talwars may have entered trade routes via East African centers such as Zanzibar and contributed their influence in the same manner?

I would appreciate hearing the thoughts of the African collecting guys out there!

Luc LEFEBVRE · 30th September 2007, 10:23 PM

Pics from The Tervren Museum, where you can see some Ilwoon

From a friend Rand:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/randafr...7600841348496/

Jim McDougall · 30th September 2007, 11:42 PM

Yup! Those are ilwoons OK!!! Nice grouping of them. Makes me all the more curious if there is any information on them out there

1st September 2007, 05:13 PM	#1
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Ilwoon scabbard Hi all, I wonder if the Congo Boys ( ) can show a detailed picture of a ilwoon Kuba scabbard that were made by raffia. At the moment I remember only the pics from Spring's (attached). I ask because I was able to find some pieces of very old raffia clothes (100 years old) and so I'd like to made one for my Ilwoon. Thank you all for the help Attached Images Last edited by Flavio; 1st September 2007 at 05:45 PM.

7th September 2007, 07:04 PM	#5
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi all, I will post some pics of my Ilwoon soon. Yes Tim you remember right , and will post also some pics of the the raffia cloth. Hello Barry, yes it's some kind of sack, but the pics are not so clear. Thank you Attached Images Last edited by Flavio; 7th September 2007 at 11:15 PM.

8th September 2007, 09:47 AM	#6
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi all, I found also this picture from "De fer et de Fierté". In this one the scabbard seems made of leather?!?!?!?!?!?!? Attached Images

29th September 2007, 06:57 PM	#10
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 473	Beauté Fatale, page 229. A wood Ilwoon or Ilondo with scabbard called ngum ilwoon. Luc Attached Images

30th September 2007, 10:23 PM	#14
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 473	Pics from The Tervren Museum, where you can see some Ilwoon From a friend Rand: http://www.flickr.com/photos/randafr...7600841348496/ Attached Images

6th September 2007, 04:26 AM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Best of luck. Can we see a pic of your ilwoon? Pleeease ????

6th September 2007, 08:30 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,824	Make one for me while you are at it. Did we not see some of your mothers needle work making little booties for your treasures? What is the raffia that you have like?

6th September 2007, 09:07 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IN YOUR PICTURE TO THE RIGHT IS THAT HIS SWORD IN SOME SORT OF A SACK HANGING ON HIS LEFT SHOULDER? IF IT IS IT WOULD BE DESIGNED TO BE EASILY REMOVED AND THE TOP OF THE POMMEL EXPOSED FOR GRASPING AND DRAWING THE SWORD PERHAPS THROWING THE SACK TO THE GROUND. GOOD LUCK

27th September 2007, 04:07 AM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE BEEN LOOKING AROUND IN MY STUFF AS I REMEMBERED SEEING A SWORD OF THIS TYPE. I FOUND ONE IT IS MADE JUST LIKE THE SWORD BUT IS MADE ENTIRELY FROM WOOD IT WOULD STILL BE A DANGEROUS WEAPON BUT NOT AS GOOD FOR CUTTING AS STEEL. I WILL CONTINUE TO SEE IF I HAVE ANY MORE EXAMPLES. I TOOK SOME PICTURES BUT THE WAY MY COMPUTER IS SET UP ALL MY PHOTOS DOWNLOAD INTO ADOBE PHOTOSHOP AND I HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO GET ACCESS TO ANY OF MY PHOTOS TO EMAIL OR POST THEM OR ANYTHING ELSE. I HAVE JUST LEARNED THAT IF YOU DON'T BUY SOMETHING FROM THEM EVERY 60 DAYS THEY START DELETING YOUR PHOTOS I WAS WONDERING WHERE MY PHOTOS WERE GOING. ITS ESPECIALLY A SHAME WITH FAMILY PHOTOS AND VACATION PHOTOS. SO I AM ONCE AGAIN WITH A CAMERA BUT NO WAY TO DOWNLOAD THE PICTURES INTO MY COMPUTER WITHOUT GETTING THEM STUCK IN ADOBIE PHOTOSHOP UNTILL THEY DELETE THEM. A FINE FREE SERVICE THAT IS

27th September 2007, 11:06 PM	#8
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 473	To be complete, your sword needs a sort of iron ring at the top of the handle wich contains cauries or teeth fixed with a natural resin. Scabbard are rare, I know 2 in a belgian collection. Luc

29th September 2007, 02:22 PM	#9
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Luc, yes you are right , but i'm not interested to replace the ferrule.... and maybe I will not make a scabbard... it's too hard to find good pics

29th September 2007, 07:14 PM	#11
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	AHHHHHH, THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH LUC!!!!!!

30th September 2007, 07:22 AM	#13
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,100	I am wondering about the hilt form on these 'ilwoon', if anything is known on the significance of the markings typically carved into them and earliest examples of the form. While free association at its best, I cannot resist noting the similarity of the pommel and cap or stem on the examples I have seen of 'ilwoon' resembling those of talwars and paluours. It has been suggested that edged weapons from Portuguese and Dutch traders in 16th c. influenced the work of Congolese smiths, who emulated the foreign forms. Is it possible that weapons such as talwars may have entered trade routes via East African centers such as Zanzibar and contributed their influence in the same manner? I would appreciate hearing the thoughts of the African collecting guys out there!

30th September 2007, 11:42 PM	#15
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,100	Yup! Those are ilwoons OK!!! Nice grouping of them. Makes me all the more curious if there is any information on them out there