Keris Sundang??

rasdan · 17th December 2004, 04:57 AM

Hi guys,

I need some info on this keris. Got it from Kelantan. Length is 23 inch. Round tang length 3 inch. Pamor blade. Is this a Malay sundang? Or may it be Moro? I've seen one of this kind previously from Kelantan as well; and there is another that is said to be longer with bulu ayam pamor. Workmanship is quite rough. Blade is not really thick but u can only bend it a bit less than a third towards the tip. Anybody know the origin of this weapon? And who use it?
Thanks in advance for your help.

http://photobucket.com/practice.php?id=53b6a

Regards,
Rasdan

Federico · 17th December 2004, 06:09 AM

At least if I am looking at the right pics. Absolutely not Moro.

Henk · 17th December 2004, 07:27 AM

This is a keris. I think it comes from Java or Madura. 23 inches? A big fellow. But on Java there are large kerisses with the same size as Balinese ones.
Is there a scabbard and a grip? If so it might be a bit easier to tell you where this one comes from.

rasdan · 17th December 2004, 08:47 AM

Hi,

The problem is there is not original scabbard of hilt. We have to judge on the blade purely. But i think its too large for a keris. On the other hand, if it is for slashing, why round tang?

Federico · 17th December 2004, 09:20 AM

The perabot features are all wrong for a Moro kris, as well as the dapur. Not to mention the blade pamor/texture. Despite the size, not Moro. A keris from where, well I am not a keris guy, but I know for sure this isnt Moro.

MABAGANI · 17th December 2004, 03:06 PM

Bugis from my untrained eyes? I recall from photos of Indonesians practicing their martial arts with a keris that their hands were partly on the blade. As the keris gets bigger but still had round tangs, it makes sense that the trunk area is left smooth at least on a bugis keris, if fingers are wrapped around the blade to manipulate the weapon for cuts or thrusts, unless I'm seeing this wrong...

Lew · 17th December 2004, 03:13 PM

Hi Rasdan

It is most definately not Moro. The tangs on Moro kris are rectangular in shape and not round. I would agree with Henk that it is from Madura or Java.

Lew

nechesh · 17th December 2004, 03:20 PM

Definitely not a sundang, either Moro or otherwise. This has all the features of an Indonesian keris and i suspect Henk is pretty close on origin, though i would leam towards Madura. Sure, it's an unusally large one, but i was always taught that size didn't matter.

ronpakis · 17th December 2004, 06:56 PM

probably like some of the others said a maduran keris. the lancet shape and also the proportions are not unusual in madura. its definitly not from any other island exept perhaps eastern java, although these are most of the times not as large as this one.

Sakhti777 · 17th December 2004, 10:07 PM

Hi Rasdan,
A nice forum. This is a keris form but a remake from old blades possibly from Madura. Not a quality kris to me but nice to look at for its size.

DAHenkel · 18th December 2004, 05:02 AM

Not a sundang and not old but probably forged in Malaysia rather than Madura. Madurese blades are much more Javanese - even when they try and forge Bugis or Malay style blades. Lots of smiths churning out fakes in Pasir Mas and Bulok Susu these days

Battara · 19th December 2004, 07:59 PM

About as Moro as my Japanese judo gi.

rasdan · 20th December 2004, 01:54 AM

Hi guys,

Thank you very much for the input. I guess this is a part and parcel of being a collector anyway.

Confusion and curiosity may lead to many strange places. If this is a newly made that means this is the second mistake i've made in 2 weeks. hehehe... emmm.. hav u guys seen the movie "a series of unfortunate events" ?

Andrew · 20th December 2004, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasdan

Hi guys,

Thank you very much for the input. I guess this is a part and parcel of being a collector anyway.

Confusion and curiosity may lead to many strange places. If this is a newly made that means this is the second mistake i've made in 2 weeks. hehehe... emmm.. hav u guys seen the movie "a series of unfortunate events" ?

Oh, rasdan, I feel your pain.

I've made so many mistaken purchases I can only hope the good deals I find even out the cost both financially and emotionally.

rasdan · 20th December 2004, 04:37 AM

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your kind support.

Eventually time will heal the pain, but, 2 weeks is inadequate. hehehe..

17th December 2004, 04:57 AM	#1
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Keris Sundang?? Hi guys, I need some info on this keris. Got it from Kelantan. Length is 23 inch. Round tang length 3 inch. Pamor blade. Is this a Malay sundang? Or may it be Moro? I've seen one of this kind previously from Kelantan as well; and there is another that is said to be longer with bulu ayam pamor. Workmanship is quite rough. Blade is not really thick but u can only bend it a bit less than a third towards the tip. Anybody know the origin of this weapon? And who use it? Thanks in advance for your help. http://photobucket.com/practice.php?id=53b6a Regards, Rasdan

17th December 2004, 06:09 AM	#2
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	At least if I am looking at the right pics. Absolutely not Moro.

17th December 2004, 07:27 AM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	This is a keris. I think it comes from Java or Madura. 23 inches? A big fellow. But on Java there are large kerisses with the same size as Balinese ones. Is there a scabbard and a grip? If so it might be a bit easier to tell you where this one comes from.

17th December 2004, 08:47 AM	#4
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi, The problem is there is not original scabbard of hilt. We have to judge on the blade purely. But i think its too large for a keris. On the other hand, if it is for slashing, why round tang?

17th December 2004, 09:20 AM	#5
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	The perabot features are all wrong for a Moro kris, as well as the dapur. Not to mention the blade pamor/texture. Despite the size, not Moro. A keris from where, well I am not a keris guy, but I know for sure this isnt Moro.

17th December 2004, 03:06 PM	#6
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	Bugis from my untrained eyes? I recall from photos of Indonesians practicing their martial arts with a keris that their hands were partly on the blade. As the keris gets bigger but still had round tangs, it makes sense that the trunk area is left smooth at least on a bugis keris, if fingers are wrapped around the blade to manipulate the weapon for cuts or thrusts, unless I'm seeing this wrong...

17th December 2004, 03:13 PM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Rasdan It is most definately not Moro. The tangs on Moro kris are rectangular in shape and not round. I would agree with Henk that it is from Madura or Java. Lew

17th December 2004, 03:20 PM	#8
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Definitely not a sundang, either Moro or otherwise. This has all the features of an Indonesian keris and i suspect Henk is pretty close on origin, though i would leam towards Madura. Sure, it's an unusally large one, but i was always taught that size didn't matter.

17th December 2004, 06:56 PM	#9
ronpakis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: netherlands Posts: 75	probably like some of the others said a maduran keris. the lancet shape and also the proportions are not unusual in madura. its definitly not from any other island exept perhaps eastern java, although these are most of the times not as large as this one.

17th December 2004, 10:07 PM	#10
Sakhti777 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Penang Posts: 14	Hi Rasdan, A nice forum. This is a keris form but a remake from old blades possibly from Madura. Not a quality kris to me but nice to look at for its size.

18th December 2004, 05:02 AM	#11
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Not a sundang and not old but probably forged in Malaysia rather than Madura. Madurese blades are much more Javanese - even when they try and forge Bugis or Malay style blades. Lots of smiths churning out fakes in Pasir Mas and Bulok Susu these days

19th December 2004, 07:59 PM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,267	About as Moro as my Japanese judo gi.

20th December 2004, 01:54 AM	#13
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi guys, Thank you very much for the input. I guess this is a part and parcel of being a collector anyway. Confusion and curiosity may lead to many strange places. If this is a newly made that means this is the second mistake i've made in 2 weeks. hehehe... emmm.. hav u guys seen the movie "a series of unfortunate events" ?

20th December 2004, 04:37 AM	#15
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi Andrew, Thanks for your kind support. Eventually time will heal the pain, but, 2 weeks is inadequate. hehehe..