What is this: a Kard or a Pesh Kabz?

Tatyana Dianova · 1st August 2007, 09:25 PM

I've got this knife at the antique shop in Leipzig, where it was labeled as "Tibetian knife"

Well, to me it lookes pretty Persian: the carved bone handle with typical men and women figures, the golden koftgari, also the steel after cleaning and etching appeared to be Wootz. But the form of this dagger really puzzles me: it is something between a Kard and a Pesh Kabz. Have anybody seen something like this before? How should I call it, maybe a Pesh Kard

?

ariel · 1st August 2007, 09:32 PM

It is a Pesh Kabz, and a gorgeous one!!!!

rand · 1st August 2007, 10:06 PM

Nice dagger!! Which shop was that? just kidding.... Like how the grip scales are larger than the tang, very correct mounting and could be original to it. The shape of the blade looks very Indian, the style of gold decoration looks Persian, the grip scales appear Mughal to me. Nice find!!!

Kards are usually straight and single edged blades, the Indian arms have so many variations, it sometimes seems endless....

Now, aren't you glad your a collector?

rand

ariel · 2nd August 2007, 01:31 AM

The carvings are Persian. Artzi and Avner Yarom have quite a lot of those. They were shown in the book by M. Khorasani "Arms and Armor from Iran" and their provenance was misattributed to Dr. David Darom.

CharlesS · 2nd August 2007, 03:19 AM

Absolutely gorgeous find...I am so jealous!!

Tatyana Dianova · 2nd August 2007, 11:17 AM

Thank you all for nice words!
I can tell you the address of the shop, but there was only one of these

, and I think there willn't be any other in the next 100 years..
Of course I looked for the similar examples in "Arms and Armour from Iran" and in Internet as well, but couldn't find the same. The blade seems to be Pesh Kabz type, the handle has a Kard form, and similar bone carvings I have seen only on Persian Jambiyas. But the whole mounting seems to be perfectly original to the blade. So this dagger appears to be a bit special.

katana · 3rd August 2007, 06:21 PM

What a beauty.....congrats

tsubame1 · 3rd August 2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

and their provenance was misattributed to Dr. David Darom.

No misattribution at all.
Dar Darom was the photographer.

Battara · 3rd August 2007, 09:45 PM

Yes one of the best Persian examples I have seen! Congratulations!

galvano · 4th August 2007, 12:18 PM

hi all
zirah bouk ( mail piercer)
galvano

rand · 4th August 2007, 09:24 PM

The Persian influence was very strong in India, the court spoke Farsi (Persian), Persian style and decoration motifs were widely copied, style or arms and armor was also copied. Also, relics from the time of Muhammad were highly valued too. Just look at the sword of Babur at the Met, Museum of Art, it has a fblade with square kufic script used at the time of Muhammad, Babur names is chiseled into the cross guard.

The floral decoration, especially the birds look very Persian influenced, being that the Mughals also copied Persian costume its hard to say who was wearing what. But the blade looks very Mughal influenced and more to the taste of an Indian (Mughal).

It gets into the realm of what if a Persian makes a blade for a Mughal while in India, with an Indian style blade, but opts for a Persain hilt style, the floral decoration done to the most favored flower of the current Raja. Is this Mughal? Indian? Persian? All of them? None of them? Does the blade determine origen? Does the hilt determine origen? Does the desiign motif of the decoration determine origen? No simple answer here that I see. Must be why you see that word "Indo" so much, or "Sino". Next it will be IndoSino....hmmmmm, IndiSino? Now that covers about everything!

No matter what its a very nice dagger that stands on its own.....

rand (sinoing off) and very ( Indocisive)

ham · 4th August 2007, 11:44 PM

There is nothing in the images represented on the grips nor in the pattern of the goldwork on the blade which suggest anything other than Persian workmanship. The form of the blade, and the pattern of the wootz from which it is forged, may indicate N. Indian workmanship, however.
The carved, oversized grips and quality of the goldwork suggest a latter 19th century Persian remounting of an earlier, possibly Mughal, blade.
Overall a very nice example, congratulations.

Ham

ariel · 4th August 2007, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand

Next it will be IndoSino....hmmmmm, IndiSino? Now that covers about everything!

No matter what its a very nice dagger that stands on its own.....

rand (sinoing off) and very ( Indocisive)

It is already used: Indochina

1st August 2007, 09:25 PM	#1
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 725	What is this: a Kard or a Pesh Kabz? I've got this knife at the antique shop in Leipzig, where it was labeled as "Tibetian knife" Well, to me it lookes pretty Persian: the carved bone handle with typical men and women figures, the golden koftgari, also the steel after cleaning and etching appeared to be Wootz. But the form of this dagger really puzzles me: it is something between a Kard and a Pesh Kabz. Have anybody seen something like this before? How should I call it, maybe a Pesh Kard ? Attached Images

1st August 2007, 10:06 PM	#3
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Nice Dagger Nice dagger!! Which shop was that? just kidding.... Like how the grip scales are larger than the tang, very correct mounting and could be original to it. The shape of the blade looks very Indian, the style of gold decoration looks Persian, the grip scales appear Mughal to me. Nice find!!! Kards are usually straight and single edged blades, the Indian arms have so many variations, it sometimes seems endless.... Now, aren't you glad your a collector? rand Last edited by rand; 2nd August 2007 at 01:49 AM.

4th August 2007, 12:18 PM	#10
galvano Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 178	perhaps hi all zirah bouk ( mail piercer) galvano

4th August 2007, 09:24 PM	#11
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Persian Influence The Persian influence was very strong in India, the court spoke Farsi (Persian), Persian style and decoration motifs were widely copied, style or arms and armor was also copied. Also, relics from the time of Muhammad were highly valued too. Just look at the sword of Babur at the Met, Museum of Art, it has a fblade with square kufic script used at the time of Muhammad, Babur names is chiseled into the cross guard. The floral decoration, especially the birds look very Persian influenced, being that the Mughals also copied Persian costume its hard to say who was wearing what. But the blade looks very Mughal influenced and more to the taste of an Indian (Mughal). It gets into the realm of what if a Persian makes a blade for a Mughal while in India, with an Indian style blade, but opts for a Persain hilt style, the floral decoration done to the most favored flower of the current Raja. Is this Mughal? Indian? Persian? All of them? None of them? Does the blade determine origen? Does the hilt determine origen? Does the desiign motif of the decoration determine origen? No simple answer here that I see. Must be why you see that word "Indo" so much, or "Sino". Next it will be IndoSino....hmmmmm, IndiSino? Now that covers about everything! No matter what its a very nice dagger that stands on its own..... rand (sinoing off) and very ( Indocisive)

1st August 2007, 09:32 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is a Pesh Kabz, and a gorgeous one!!!!

2nd August 2007, 01:31 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The carvings are Persian. Artzi and Avner Yarom have quite a lot of those. They were shown in the book by M. Khorasani "Arms and Armor from Iran" and their provenance was misattributed to Dr. David Darom.

2nd August 2007, 03:19 AM	#5
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Absolutely gorgeous find...I am so jealous!!

2nd August 2007, 11:17 AM	#6
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 725	Thank you all for nice words! I can tell you the address of the shop, but there was only one of these , and I think there willn't be any other in the next 100 years.. Of course I looked for the similar examples in "Arms and Armour from Iran" and in Internet as well, but couldn't find the same. The blade seems to be Pesh Kabz type, the handle has a Kard form, and similar bone carvings I have seen only on Persian Jambiyas. But the whole mounting seems to be perfectly original to the blade. So this dagger appears to be a bit special.

3rd August 2007, 06:21 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	What a beauty.....congrats

3rd August 2007, 09:45 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,257	Yes one of the best Persian examples I have seen! Congratulations!

4th August 2007, 11:44 PM	#12
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	There is nothing in the images represented on the grips nor in the pattern of the goldwork on the blade which suggest anything other than Persian workmanship. The form of the blade, and the pattern of the wootz from which it is forged, may indicate N. Indian workmanship, however. The carved, oversized grips and quality of the goldwork suggest a latter 19th century Persian remounting of an earlier, possibly Mughal, blade. Overall a very nice example, congratulations. Ham