Name That Blade....Lumad?

Conogre · 17th February 2005, 12:28 AM

I recently posted a pic of the larger of these two pieces, along with another, in a current thread about Pira, with the comment being made that the blade style was not a known Moro form (true).
I recieved this 2nd piece today from a friend and to me the similarity in blades seems unmistakable, with much about the rest of it seeming, to me, to be Moro-like, which immediately brings to mind the Lumad tribes.
The 2nd knife is 16" overall with a 12" slightly recurved yatagan-like blade bearing a 3" sharpened portion along the top at the tip......I believe the blade itself was rf-forged from a file, as seen in the close up of the tip.
The hilt is a checkered dark hardwood with a 3/4" faceted brass ferule and a somewhat crudely cut designed brass guard on one end and has a brass wrapped pommel with a seperate brass cap plate, 2 small brass washer-type pieces and the tang peened over through them all.
The scabbard is made from two rather heavy hardwood slabs with a plain brass throat and toe, held together with copper wire in a twisted pattern that I've not seen (or at least noticed) before and which I think may have been the original method of securing the halves, based on discoloration of the wood matching the overlaying wire pattern.
I can give no real estimation of age other than to say that it definitely isn't a new piece, with the blade cleaned in the recent past.
The blade, by the way, curves inward from the spine for its entire length to the point that it seems to be a wide fuller from spine to the edge, where it swells slightly outward again, then back down to a razor edge.
I guess I'm asking 1) am I subconsciously seeing too much similarity in blade shape between the two pieces and 2) is the 2nd recognizable to anyone as a Lumad weapon?
My basic feeling/suspiscion is that both are from the area conventionally thought of as Moro, thus may indicate Lumad connections and even a tendency to a specific blade shape/type.
And no, I'm too hooked on unusual specimens to consider selecting just "normal" pieces in the future!**grin**
Comments? (please)

Ian · 17th February 2005, 01:44 AM

Mike:

I cannot recall seeing any Lumad weapons that were full tang in construction. Others may have seen such, but I think this one is more likely northern Philippines in origin (probably Tagalog), where peened over, full tang hilts are common.

Ian.

Conogre · 17th February 2005, 05:53 AM

Another case of traveling blades being rehilted wherever they end up?
I see your point about the peened tang, and agree with the Tagalog ID to the knife overall (thank you) but the shape of the blades do seem too similar to be coincedental.....can you recall seeing a PI blade of this configuration in the past and any best guess on where it may have originated?
Sorry, but when I saw the 2nd PI yatagan shaped blade my curiosity got the best of me.

17th February 2005, 12:28 AM	#1
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Name That Blade....Lumad? I recently posted a pic of the larger of these two pieces, along with another, in a current thread about Pira, with the comment being made that the blade style was not a known Moro form (true). I recieved this 2nd piece today from a friend and to me the similarity in blades seems unmistakable, with much about the rest of it seeming, to me, to be Moro-like, which immediately brings to mind the Lumad tribes. The 2nd knife is 16" overall with a 12" slightly recurved yatagan-like blade bearing a 3" sharpened portion along the top at the tip......I believe the blade itself was rf-forged from a file, as seen in the close up of the tip. The hilt is a checkered dark hardwood with a 3/4" faceted brass ferule and a somewhat crudely cut designed brass guard on one end and has a brass wrapped pommel with a seperate brass cap plate, 2 small brass washer-type pieces and the tang peened over through them all. The scabbard is made from two rather heavy hardwood slabs with a plain brass throat and toe, held together with copper wire in a twisted pattern that I've not seen (or at least noticed) before and which I think may have been the original method of securing the halves, based on discoloration of the wood matching the overlaying wire pattern. I can give no real estimation of age other than to say that it definitely isn't a new piece, with the blade cleaned in the recent past. The blade, by the way, curves inward from the spine for its entire length to the point that it seems to be a wide fuller from spine to the edge, where it swells slightly outward again, then back down to a razor edge. I guess I'm asking 1) am I subconsciously seeing too much similarity in blade shape between the two pieces and 2) is the 2nd recognizable to anyone as a Lumad weapon? My basic feeling/suspiscion is that both are from the area conventionally thought of as Moro, thus may indicate Lumad connections and even a tendency to a specific blade shape/type. And no, I'm too hooked on unusual specimens to consider selecting just "normal" pieces in the future!grin Comments? (please) Attached Images

17th February 2005, 01:44 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,356	Mike: I cannot recall seeing any Lumad weapons that were full tang in construction. Others may have seen such, but I think this one is more likely northern Philippines in origin (probably Tagalog), where peened over, full tang hilts are common. Ian.

17th February 2005, 05:53 AM	#3
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Another case of traveling blades being rehilted wherever they end up? I see your point about the peened tang, and agree with the Tagalog ID to the knife overall (thank you) but the shape of the blades do seem too similar to be coincedental.....can you recall seeing a PI blade of this configuration in the past and any best guess on where it may have originated? Sorry, but when I saw the 2nd PI yatagan shaped blade my curiosity got the best of me.