17th century Low countries crossbow with windlass

Marcus den toom · 19th February 2020, 06:29 PM

This is an item i just wanted to have had in my collection, eventhough it is not my collection area at all.
Meaning as well that this is something i know little about.
Hope to learn more here

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=crossbow

Lansquenet59 · 19th February 2020, 08:20 PM

Hi ,

It is very beautiful . Is it a reproduction or original? Can someone say more?

corrado26 · 20th February 2020, 07:32 AM

I think that this is very nice original with exception of the ropes which certainly have been replaced

cornelistromp · 20th February 2020, 07:51 AM

an authentic Target crossbow with so called English windlass with spoked wheels , the Nethelands first half - Mid 18th Century.

are there any marks on the bow? bull's head or rooster with stars.

best,
Jasper

attached one from my collection.

Lansquenet59 · 20th February 2020, 10:38 AM

Is it more military or for hunting?

cornelistromp · 20th February 2020, 01:21 PM

neither

this target crossbow is for practicing, on a crossbow shooting range.
Those shooting ranges (Doelen) stems from the training grounds for the dutch militia. probably founded in the 14thc onwards.

Militia/civic guards as seen on Rembrandt's masterpiece the night watch.
There were seperate Doelen for crossbows, for the longbow archery, and for matchlock firearms/muskets.

These civic guards were established probably between the 11th and 13th centuriy. The first archers' guilds "sheltered" the bourgeoisie, but their duties were later expanded with the defense of walls and canals.

From the 16th century the guild lost its military function, but it continued to exist as a relaxation shooting club for the elite.

best,
Jasper

corrado26 · 20th February 2020, 02:24 PM

............and here a further piece of the Netherlands
corrado26

Marcus den toom · 20th February 2020, 02:47 PM

Thank you all so much, its an even more interesting piece than my own research had panned out.
No markings as far as i can decern.
Does anyone know what rope would be best to replace this flimsy one?

And though i believe you (Jasper) on the dating i am curious to know the (stylistic) differences between a 17and 18th century bow of this type.

fernando · 20th February 2020, 02:58 PM

Marcus, you may as well visit the Königlichen Niederländischen Armeemuseum, which is not far your neighborhood

.
Quite a few examples there ... and a comprehensive catalog in the bookshop

.

Marcus den toom · 25th February 2020, 02:58 PM

True Nando, though not as close anymore with my new residence.. haha. I have been there a few times as well as in the old Visser collection.

Another question, does anyone have schematics of how such a crossbow should work from the inside?

corrado26 · 25th February 2020, 04:42 PM

I hope these pages will help you
corrado26

fernando · 25th February 2020, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

--- Another question, does anyone have schematics of how such a crossbow should work from the inside?

Do you mean the arming method or the trigger action, Marcus ?
I believe there are various arming systems as also a few evolutions of the trigger system.
The arming of the model under discussion may be seen HERE and HERE.
But you surely know all that ...

.

... Oh, Udo was faster

,

Marcus den toom · 25th February 2020, 06:22 PM

Thanks, i am breaking my head on mine though..
i attached a image of what mine looks like.. i understand how it works when its armed, but i can't figure out how it would work after releasing the trigger.

The trigger has a small nodge which keeps the trigger from releasing (and a bigger nodge for keeping the sear in bounds).
Whence the trigger is released the sear is pushed down without a force counteracting it. How it will be armed again with the sear on the trigger nodge...

corrado26 · 26th February 2020, 11:16 AM

I think after the shot you have to turn back (c) by hand until (d) will engage again, that's all. Then you can stretch the string again

cornelistromp · 27th February 2020, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

Thanks, i am breaking my head on mine though..
i attached a image of what mine looks like.. i understand how it works when its armed, but i can't figure out how it would work after releasing the trigger.

The trigger has a small nodge which keeps the trigger from releasing (and a bigger nodge for keeping the sear in bounds).
Whence the trigger is released the sear is pushed down without a force counteracting it. How it will be armed again with the sear on the trigger nodge...

Hi Marcus,

please see crossbow post #4, you have to push down the big mushroom headed pin , to arm the trigger mechanism again. At most crossbows this pin has been lost and there is only a hole to be seen.

best,
Jasper

Marcus den toom · 27th February 2020, 06:41 PM

Hi Jasper, thanks yes that is it.. simple elegant solution. I tried it and the trigger will catch on indeed.

fernando · 28th February 2020, 12:34 PM

The Columbus egg, Marcus

.

19th February 2020, 06:29 PM	#1
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 540	17th century Low countries crossbow with windlass This is an item i just wanted to have had in my collection, eventhough it is not my collection area at all. Meaning as well that this is something i know little about. Hope to learn more here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=crossbow Attached Images

20th February 2020, 01:21 PM	#6
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,064	neither this target crossbow is for practicing, on a crossbow shooting range. Those shooting ranges (Doelen) stems from the training grounds for the dutch militia. probably founded in the 14thc onwards. Militia/civic guards as seen on Rembrandt's masterpiece the night watch. There were seperate Doelen for crossbows, for the longbow archery, and for matchlock firearms/muskets. These civic guards were established probably between the 11th and 13th centuriy. The first archers' guilds "sheltered" the bourgeoisie, but their duties were later expanded with the defense of walls and canals. From the 16th century the guild lost its military function, but it continued to exist as a relaxation shooting club for the elite. best, Jasper Last edited by cornelistromp; 20th February 2020 at 01:36 PM.

20th February 2020, 02:24 PM	#7
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,240	............and here a further piece of the Netherlands corrado26 Attached Images

25th February 2020, 04:42 PM	#11
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,240	I hope these pages will help you corrado26 Attached Images

25th February 2020, 06:22 PM	#13
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 540	Thanks, i am breaking my head on mine though.. i attached a image of what mine looks like.. i understand how it works when its armed, but i can't figure out how it would work after releasing the trigger. The trigger has a small nodge which keeps the trigger from releasing (and a bigger nodge for keeping the sear in bounds). Whence the trigger is released the sear is pushed down without a force counteracting it. How it will be armed again with the sear on the trigger nodge... Attached Images

19th February 2020, 08:20 PM	#2
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	Hi , It is very beautiful . Is it a reproduction or original? Can someone say more?

20th February 2020, 07:32 AM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,240	I think that this is very nice original with exception of the ropes which certainly have been replaced

20th February 2020, 07:51 AM	#4
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,064	an authentic Target crossbow with so called English windlass with spoked wheels , the Nethelands first half - Mid 18th Century. are there any marks on the bow? bull's head or rooster with stars. best, Jasper attached one from my collection. Attached Images

20th February 2020, 10:38 AM	#5
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	Is it more military or for hunting?

20th February 2020, 02:47 PM	#8
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 540	Thank you all so much, its an even more interesting piece than my own research had panned out. No markings as far as i can decern. Does anyone know what rope would be best to replace this flimsy one? And though i believe you (Jasper) on the dating i am curious to know the (stylistic) differences between a 17and 18th century bow of this type.

20th February 2020, 02:58 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Marcus, you may as well visit the Königlichen Niederländischen Armeemuseum, which is not far your neighborhood . Quite a few examples there ... and a comprehensive catalog in the bookshop .

25th February 2020, 02:58 PM	#10
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 540	True Nando, though not as close anymore with my new residence.. haha. I have been there a few times as well as in the old Visser collection. Another question, does anyone have schematics of how such a crossbow should work from the inside?

26th February 2020, 11:16 AM	#14
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,240	I think after the shot you have to turn back (c) by hand until (d) will engage again, that's all. Then you can stretch the string again

27th February 2020, 06:41 PM	#16
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 540	Hi Jasper, thanks yes that is it.. simple elegant solution. I tried it and the trigger will catch on indeed.

28th February 2020, 12:34 PM	#17
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	The Columbus egg, Marcus .