Shamshir or pulvar?

mahratt · 15th March 2015, 10:47 AM

Colleagues, I ask everyone to express their opinion as to name an item on the photos:

Iain · 15th March 2015, 10:49 AM

Pulwar.

Kurt · 15th March 2015, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

Pulwar.

Pulowar Hilt.
Schamshir blade.

Kurt

mahratt · 15th March 2015, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt

Pulowar Hilt.
Schamshir blade.

Kurt

Of course, Kurt. But if this item is called a single word, he - Shamshir or Pulvar?

Kubur · 15th March 2015, 12:45 PM

The hilt is the ID of the user so I would say Pulwar....

estcrh · 19th March 2015, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

The hilt is the ID of the user so I would say Pulwar....

I agree, this combination of blade and hilt was ment to be a pulwar.

Gavin Nugent · 19th March 2015, 08:01 AM

Indeed, this is a Pulwar. The blade types are found in a vast region through trade yet the hilt is ethnically chosen from the region which in my opinion should call this a Pulwar

ariel · 19th March 2015, 10:23 AM

As per Stone's Glossary, it is a Pulwar.

As per Elgood's Glossary ( see his book on Indian weapons), and Oliver Pinchot's book Weapons of the Paladins, Pulwar is a mis-transcribed Tulwar, so it is a figment of European imagination:-)

As per info from my informants from the Western Pakistan ( Pakhtunkhwa, populated by ethnic Afghanis), nobody there knows the word Pulwar: for them it is a Shamshir.

Sometimes, words and names acquire their own life: we make "Xerox copies" using HP, Brother and Canon copiers:-)

In this particular case, the word Pulwar will convey maximum information for a Westerner, despite a very dubious connection with the true native tradition.

So, gentlemen, as barmen say, choose your poison:-)

If we want quick and easy lingo, it is, undoubtedly, a Pulwar.
If we are writing a catalog description for a major museum, it may be something like " an Afghani saber with a Persian shamshir blade and a handle stemming from old Deccani examples" This should be followed by a 5-page long dissertation citing multiple references and reconciling conflicting opinions

Ain't life a bitch?

:-)

spiral · 19th March 2015, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Ain't life a bitch?

:-)

Yep! it is...No doubt...

Very concise breakdown of the literature Ariel.

mahratt · 20th March 2015, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

As per Stone's Glossary, it is a Pulwar.

As per Elgood's Glossary ( see his book on Indian weapons), and Oliver Pinchot's book Weapons of the Paladins, Pulwar is a mis-transcribed Tulwar, so it is a figment of European imagination:-)

As per info from my informants from the Western Pakistan ( Pakhtunkhwa, populated by ethnic Afghanis), nobody there knows the word Pulwar: for them it is a Shamshir.

In this particular case, the word Pulwar will convey maximum information for a Westerner, despite a very dubious connection with the true native tradition.

If we want quick and easy lingo, it is, undoubtedly, a Pulwar.
If we are writing a catalog description for a major museum, it may be something like " an Afghani saber with a Persian shamshir blade and a handle stemming from old Deccani examples" This should be followed by a 5-page long dissertation citing multiple references and reconciling conflicting opinions

I apologize for my English. Thank you all for the views expressed.

Gavin, thank you for opinion. I totally agree with you.

Ariel, I did not ask to write the story of the origin of the handles of swords in Afghanistan. I asked a specific question.

And what's the difference, as in Afghanistan called saber? This is interesting from the point of view of ethnography. Nothing more. In modern literature there is a specific term "Pulvar." And those who are associated with oriental weapon it is clear that we are talking about afghan sabre.

ariel · 20th March 2015, 11:22 PM

Well, if you are satisfied with a simple answer, if it does not bother you that the very word Pulwar might be a spelling error and that native Afghanis might not even know what Pulwar is, that's fine with me.

In this case it is a Pulwar, as I already said:-)

Does it answer your question now?

mahratt · 21st March 2015, 09:09 AM

We always learn something new about the Afghan weapons. A year ago, no one knew that in some parts of Afghanistan, the Khyber knife called "seelava" and lohar - "Daas". Therefore, the word Pulwar might be a spelling error. But maybe we just did not find the information that somewhere in Afghanistan so called saber.

But most importantly, as I wrote earlier, the literature has long adopted the term "pulvar."

Therefore, your answer:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

In this case it is a Pulwar

I am satisfied.

A.alnakkas · 21st March 2015, 04:23 PM

Interesting blade. Was it etched?

mahratt · 21st March 2015, 09:36 PM

wootz blade

spiral · 23rd March 2015, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

I am satisfied.

Cool! I wonder is that the same as happy?

happy link..

mahratt · 24th March 2015, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

Cool! I wonder is that the same as happy?

happy link..

Hello, spiral

This Pulvar my friend. And he - satisfied and happy)))

15th March 2015, 10:47 AM	#1
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Shamshir or pulvar? Colleagues, I ask everyone to express their opinion as to name an item on the photos: Attached Images

20th March 2015, 11:22 PM	#11
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Well, if you are satisfied with a simple answer, if it does not bother you that the very word Pulwar might be a spelling error and that native Afghanis might not even know what Pulwar is, that's fine with me. In this case it is a Pulwar, as I already said:-) Does it answer your question now? Last edited by ariel; 21st March 2015 at 04:34 AM.

21st March 2015, 09:36 PM	#14
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	wootz blade Attached Images

15th March 2015, 10:49 AM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	Pulwar.

15th March 2015, 12:45 PM	#5
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	The hilt is the ID of the user so I would say Pulwar....

19th March 2015, 08:01 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Indeed, this is a Pulwar. The blade types are found in a vast region through trade yet the hilt is ethnically chosen from the region which in my opinion should call this a Pulwar

19th March 2015, 10:23 AM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	As per Stone's Glossary, it is a Pulwar. As per Elgood's Glossary ( see his book on Indian weapons), and Oliver Pinchot's book Weapons of the Paladins, Pulwar is a mis-transcribed Tulwar, so it is a figment of European imagination:-) As per info from my informants from the Western Pakistan ( Pakhtunkhwa, populated by ethnic Afghanis), nobody there knows the word Pulwar: for them it is a Shamshir. Sometimes, words and names acquire their own life: we make "Xerox copies" using HP, Brother and Canon copiers:-) In this particular case, the word Pulwar will convey maximum information for a Westerner, despite a very dubious connection with the true native tradition. So, gentlemen, as barmen say, choose your poison:-) If we want quick and easy lingo, it is, undoubtedly, a Pulwar. If we are writing a catalog description for a major museum, it may be something like " an Afghani saber with a Persian shamshir blade and a handle stemming from old Deccani examples" This should be followed by a 5-page long dissertation citing multiple references and reconciling conflicting opinions Ain't life a bitch? :-)

21st March 2015, 04:23 PM	#13
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Interesting blade. Was it etched?