TULWAR HILTED KILIG for ID

[kahnjar1]

A good friend has this very nice Tulwar hilted Kilig. Can anyone please ID this as to where from etc. Also I am aware that the eyelash mark has been well discussed in previous threads, but what about the other marks. Does anyone know where they are from or what they signify?
Any help appreciated.
Thanks,
Stu

[Rick]

I have those marks on a kirach .

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=kirach

No eyelashes, but the other marks .

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Rick

I have those marks on a kirach .

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=kirach

No eyelashes, but the other marks .

Hi Rick,
Did you find out anything about the marks. I do not see them on the link though.
Regards Stu

[Jim McDougall]

It seems I have seen these markings in this configuration before as well, I think probably on the kirach Rick posted in 2005, but possibly elsewhere.
The hilt on this tulwar suggests Rajasthan, while the flared quillon terminals suggest Deccani influence typically Mughal. The silvering recalls bidri work but hard to see in image, is it inlaid?

The blade, which is not a kilij but an Indian blade with yelman as well known on northern tulwars of usually 18th century, seems to be of the ricassoed form well known with Rajput and Sikh examples. The markings seem later and they appear to reflect interpretations of earlier trade blades often with spurious inscriptions and the 'sickle marks'. The early blades from North Italy often had Genoa stamped between the sickles and usually groupings of dots in various arrangement usually at the ends of each arc. The apparant 'sun' or solar marks have possibility of reflecting either other earlier European 'cog wheel' marks seen on many blades,or in this case perhaps intended to represent the Suryavanshi lineage (Rajput sun lineage) along with the power/quality allegory of the markings.

The 'letters' or symbols between the dentated arcs may be intended to represent the Genoa or Fringia lettering often seen on Styrian sabre blades of late 16th-17th c. and carried forth in native interpretation. The sickle marks alone are commonly seen on Afghan 'paluoar' sabre blades which were notably favored by sword makers in those regions. Cross diffusion of weapons from the northern Afghan regions through Rajasthan into the Deccan was understandably usual.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
This beautiful Tulwar is owned by Jens, as I'm not sure how to post a link I hope he doesn't mind my reposting his photographs, the marks have obvious similarities.

Hi Jim,
I think these might possibly be the ones you are referring to.
Regards,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
This considerably plainer one is mine.
Regards,
Norman.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

It seems I have seen these markings in this configuration before as well, I think probably on the kirach Rick posted in 2005, but possibly elsewhere.
The hilt on this tulwar suggests Rajasthan, while the flared quillon terminals suggest Deccani influence typically Mughal. The silvering recalls bidri work but hard to see in image, is it inlaid?

The blade, which is not a kilij but an Indian blade with yelman as well known on northern tulwars of usually 18th century, seems to be of the ricassoed form well known with Rajput and Sikh examples. The markings seem later and they appear to reflect interpretations of earlier trade blades often with spurious inscriptions and the 'sickle marks'. The early blades from North Italy often had Genoa stamped between the sickles and usually groupings of dots in various arrangement usually at the ends of each arc. The apparant 'sun' or solar marks have possibility of reflecting either other earlier European 'cog wheel' marks seen on many blades,or in this case perhaps intended to represent the Suryavanshi lineage (Rajput sun lineage) along with the power/quality allegory of the markings.

The 'letters' or symbols between the dentated arcs may be intended to represent the Genoa or Fringia lettering often seen on Styrian sabre blades of late 16th-17th c. and carried forth in native interpretation. The sickle marks alone are commonly seen on Afghan 'paluoar' sabre blades which were notably favored by sword makers in those regions. Cross diffusion of weapons from the northern Afghan regions through Rajasthan into the Deccan was understandably usual.

Hi Jim, and a Happy New Year. As usual a concise reply for which I thank you. Hope that the "travelling road show" is going well.The koftgari work is not inlaid, but is applied to raised decoration.
Thanks also to others who have replied.
IF these marks are NOT copies, where are they likely to have originated? I have not seen many of these Kilig bladed swords "in the flesh", but this one seems very nice to me, and the blade of good quality.
Regards Stu

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Norman, those are the marks!!!
Stu, Thank you so much, and a great new year to you too! Travelling road show is actually in dry dock until march, yay. Too much highway last year .

I think these marks are most likely Rajasthani.

All the best guys,
Jim