Mystery Sword Guard - A short story

sabertasche · 30th May 2006, 05:41 AM

Hi guys, can you help me out with this sword guard? Here's the story.

4-5 years ago I was on a business trip in the BC interior. I usually picked up something during my trips but this time I struck out. Out of desperation I stopped in a overpriced antique store and bought a pressed glass, footed cake plate (told you I was desperate

), for my Mom for 5 bucks. I then called my wife and informed her proudly that I have not contributed to my "wall of death" - her words for my collection. Farther on down the road toward home I stopped in another expensive antique store and spotted this sword guard. His price was HUGE!

Not having any $$ in hand I offered to trade him him some army badges. No go, didn't like the stuff. Not interested. So I asked him "well, what do you collect?" He said footed cake plates

My wife and my Mom were not really amused, nor were they surprised/

Cheers and your thoughts,

Greg

ariel · 30th May 2006, 05:45 PM

Don't try it on your Mother-in-Law!

Seriously, interesting guard. I am also intrigued as to it's attribution.

katana · 30th May 2006, 06:31 PM

I wouldn't do that on a regular basis, you might end up having to protect yourself with one of your pieces from the 'wall of death'.

sabertasche · 30th May 2006, 07:20 PM

Guys, don't get me started on my outlaws - I've always been misunderstood. Luckily I produce cute kids

I suspect Spanish American - colonial, maybe Mexican. It is very robust. the main bar seems mass produced while everything else is hand made.

Opinions???

Greg

sabertasche · 1st June 2006, 05:55 PM

Just resurecting this post. Any ideas out there on this sword guard?

Greg

Jim McDougall · 2nd June 2006, 01:49 AM

Hi Sabertasche,
You are exactly right, it is Spanish colonial from a sabre of c. 1820's to 30's.
These seem to derive mostly from regions from Louisiana, Northern Mexico and through southern Texas. It would be interesting to see how it ended up as far north as Canada, but these sabres wound up in quite distant places with the considerable geopolitical events well known in these regions during the 19th century. We know that Spanish blades from these regions even found thier way to Confederate sabres during the Civil War (Custer captured one such sword in combat).
JUDL re: the trade !!!!

Well done!!
Best regards,
Jim

sabertasche · 2nd June 2006, 06:28 AM

Thanks Jim

So this would have been made in the Americas rather than an import from Spain, right?

The time frame is around the Mexican war of independence? (was there a M W of I

) Sorry to those of the forum who may be from Mexico - I have no knowledge of Mexican history.

Greg

Jim McDougall · 3rd June 2006, 04:54 AM

Hi Sabertasche,
Yes, these were definitely made here in the regions of New Spain in the early years of the 19th century. The one I have was apparantly from New Orleans about that time, and as you have noted, was associated with Mexico achieving independance from Spain. The history of both Spain, and Mexico are fascinating and have always been one of my passions. I grew up in Southern California and truly loved the cultural presence of both Spain and Mexico that remains the mainstay of California's own cultural mix.

Many years ago, long before I was aware of the history of Spanish colonial swords, I had one of these which had been identified as Confederate. Since that was questionable and I had no idea what it was, I traded it off

That and the loss of a beautiful espada ancha have haunted me to this very day.

These sabres remained in service for some time after Mexico's independance, and some found thier way even into use by the militia forces that were known as 'rurales'. These 'police' troops were used as enforcement factions during the 1860's-70's and later, creating thier own uniforms and using gathered equipment, including many old swords.

Even though only a hilt, it's one with lot's of history, and well worth researching further.
All the best,
Jim

30th May 2006, 05:41 AM	#1
sabertasche Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 149	Mystery Sword Guard - A short story Hi guys, can you help me out with this sword guard? Here's the story. 4-5 years ago I was on a business trip in the BC interior. I usually picked up something during my trips but this time I struck out. Out of desperation I stopped in a overpriced antique store and bought a pressed glass, footed cake plate (told you I was desperate ), for my Mom for 5 bucks. I then called my wife and informed her proudly that I have not contributed to my "wall of death" - her words for my collection. Farther on down the road toward home I stopped in another expensive antique store and spotted this sword guard. His price was HUGE! Not having any $$ in hand I offered to trade him him some army badges. No go, didn't like the stuff. Not interested. So I asked him "well, what do you collect?" He said footed cake plates My wife and my Mom were not really amused, nor were they surprised/ Cheers and your thoughts, Greg Attached Images

1st June 2006, 05:55 PM	#5
sabertasche Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 149	Mystery Sword Guard Just resurecting this post. Any ideas out there on this sword guard? Greg

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30th May 2006, 05:45 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Don't try it on your Mother-in-Law! Seriously, interesting guard. I am also intrigued as to it's attribution.

30th May 2006, 06:31 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	I wouldn't do that on a regular basis, you might end up having to protect yourself with one of your pieces from the 'wall of death'.

30th May 2006, 07:20 PM	#4
sabertasche Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 149	Guys, don't get me started on my outlaws - I've always been misunderstood. Luckily I produce cute kids I suspect Spanish American - colonial, maybe Mexican. It is very robust. the main bar seems mass produced while everything else is hand made. Opinions??? Greg

2nd June 2006, 01:49 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hi Sabertasche, You are exactly right, it is Spanish colonial from a sabre of c. 1820's to 30's. These seem to derive mostly from regions from Louisiana, Northern Mexico and through southern Texas. It would be interesting to see how it ended up as far north as Canada, but these sabres wound up in quite distant places with the considerable geopolitical events well known in these regions during the 19th century. We know that Spanish blades from these regions even found thier way to Confederate sabres during the Civil War (Custer captured one such sword in combat). JUDL re: the trade !!!! Well done!! Best regards, Jim

2nd June 2006, 06:28 AM	#7
sabertasche Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 149	Thanks Jim So this would have been made in the Americas rather than an import from Spain, right? The time frame is around the Mexican war of independence? (was there a M W of I ) Sorry to those of the forum who may be from Mexico - I have no knowledge of Mexican history. Greg

3rd June 2006, 04:54 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hi Sabertasche, Yes, these were definitely made here in the regions of New Spain in the early years of the 19th century. The one I have was apparantly from New Orleans about that time, and as you have noted, was associated with Mexico achieving independance from Spain. The history of both Spain, and Mexico are fascinating and have always been one of my passions. I grew up in Southern California and truly loved the cultural presence of both Spain and Mexico that remains the mainstay of California's own cultural mix. Many years ago, long before I was aware of the history of Spanish colonial swords, I had one of these which had been identified as Confederate. Since that was questionable and I had no idea what it was, I traded it off That and the loss of a beautiful espada ancha have haunted me to this very day. These sabres remained in service for some time after Mexico's independance, and some found thier way even into use by the militia forces that were known as 'rurales'. These 'police' troops were used as enforcement factions during the 1860's-70's and later, creating thier own uniforms and using gathered equipment, including many old swords. Even though only a hilt, it's one with lot's of history, and well worth researching further. All the best, Jim