Crude Made Dagger; Opinions Please

drac2k · 22nd July 2024, 08:57 PM

I recently acquired this crude village-made blacksmith knife and I'm not sure as to what I have. I've been told everything from a Civil War Bowie, to an Indian Trade Knife, a Mountaineer's blade, etc. and I also realize that it could be a modern copy. I like the wear and tear and the traces of the file it was made from.
It comes with a scabbard which fits , but is too short; obviously, the top has broken off and the remaining metal throat seems to fit the sheath and the knife, however, that may not be the case that it belongs with this dagger.
This is probably one I'll never figure out, but a consensus.
It measures 16.25" and 1 & 5/8" at its widest.

fernando · 23rd July 2024, 07:41 AM

Difficult to give a style name, Drac, as it was made of various parts. Perhaps best is to simply call it ... a knife

.

drac2k · 23rd July 2024, 01:23 PM

Well,no one can contest the accuracy of your observation, lol. That will probably be the best that I will receive. The blade, an (old file), and the guard were both hand forged, and the handle is probably deer stag, so it isn't a composite knife made from other swords,etc.
I think we can assume that it is of North American origin.

Rick · 23rd July 2024, 05:33 PM

I'd place it in the wide category of what is known as a Bowie knife.

drac2k · 23rd July 2024, 05:50 PM

I agree;I just found an example with a very similar blade that I will post when my technical dept. gets home.

Jim McDougall · 23rd July 2024, 11:31 PM

Looks to me like a very interesting 'frontier' knife of probably mid 19th c. give or take. The 'Bowie' term of course became a collective term for virtually any large frontier knife, it seems regardless of the actual configuration, as Rick has noted.

These followed no distinct pattern, but obviously were simply fashioned pragmatically for the rugged use on the plains, so real way to determine more exact, but certainly seems period, and not reproduction.

As Drac notes, likely and old file blade (very common and actually the 'first' Bowie was reputed from an old file blade) and bone hilt. Very nice !IMO!
Rugged frontier charm.

drac2k · 24th July 2024, 02:41 AM

Jim, I think you are right on the money. I just contacted a person that I know who owns an antique shop loaded with all manner of militaria; his shop is more like a museum . He is a historian, an author, he does world-class restorations on furniture, paintings, swords, guns, etc..He was happily describing the 6 pounder cannon that he just acquired from Brimfield.
His words were almost the same as yours;he thought that the bowie was of Mexican War Vintage (give or take), and it belonged to a frontierman.He was leaning to it being a little earlier because of both quillons being upturned as opposed to the later "S," style with one being up and the other turned down.

22nd July 2024, 08:57 PM	#1
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,217	Crude Made Dagger; Opinions Please I recently acquired this crude village-made blacksmith knife and I'm not sure as to what I have. I've been told everything from a Civil War Bowie, to an Indian Trade Knife, a Mountaineer's blade, etc. and I also realize that it could be a modern copy. I like the wear and tear and the traces of the file it was made from. It comes with a scabbard which fits , but is too short; obviously, the top has broken off and the remaining metal throat seems to fit the sheath and the knife, however, that may not be the case that it belongs with this dagger. This is probably one I'll never figure out, but a consensus. It measures 16.25" and 1 & 5/8" at its widest. Attached Images

23rd July 2024, 07:41 AM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Difficult to give a style name, Drac, as it was made of various parts. Perhaps best is to simply call it ... a knife .

23rd July 2024, 01:23 PM	#3
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,217	Well,no one can contest the accuracy of your observation, lol. That will probably be the best that I will receive. The blade, an (old file), and the guard were both hand forged, and the handle is probably deer stag, so it isn't a composite knife made from other swords,etc. I think we can assume that it is of North American origin.

23rd July 2024, 05:33 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,287	I'd place it in the wide category of what is known as a Bowie knife.

23rd July 2024, 05:50 PM	#5
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,217	I agree;I just found an example with a very similar blade that I will post when my technical dept. gets home.

23rd July 2024, 11:31 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,894	Looks to me like a very interesting 'frontier' knife of probably mid 19th c. give or take. The 'Bowie' term of course became a collective term for virtually any large frontier knife, it seems regardless of the actual configuration, as Rick has noted. These followed no distinct pattern, but obviously were simply fashioned pragmatically for the rugged use on the plains, so real way to determine more exact, but certainly seems period, and not reproduction. As Drac notes, likely and old file blade (very common and actually the 'first' Bowie was reputed from an old file blade) and bone hilt. Very nice !IMO! Rugged frontier charm.

24th July 2024, 02:41 AM	#7
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,217	Jim, I think you are right on the money. I just contacted a person that I know who owns an antique shop loaded with all manner of militaria; his shop is more like a museum . He is a historian, an author, he does world-class restorations on furniture, paintings, swords, guns, etc..He was happily describing the 6 pounder cannon that he just acquired from Brimfield. His words were almost the same as yours;he thought that the bowie was of Mexican War Vintage (give or take), and it belonged to a frontierman.He was leaning to it being a little earlier because of both quillons being upturned as opposed to the later "S," style with one being up and the other turned down.