van Gogh Zeybek yatagan translation assistance

Klop · 28th July 2024, 07:34 PM

Dear fellow members,

I found this T-handled (Zeybek) yatagan, unfortunately it's missing an ear.
It was brown but cleand up rather easliy, and from under the rust some insriptions appeared. The year 1285 (1868) I get but for the rest of the text I have no clue what it says. Can someone read and translate this? Next to the year I wouldn't be surprised if it's the makers name, when holding the blade that is the left side. The right side has the longer text, from the looks of it only words and no numbers.

Thanks in advance!
Eric.

Jim McDougall · 30th July 2024, 04:32 PM

VAN GOGH yataghan!!! Good one Eric!!!

love it!

kronckew · 30th July 2024, 05:07 PM

You could also more accurately call it Trump, ince it's the right ear.

Klop · 30th July 2024, 07:29 PM

yep, the right side is lost but I elected Vincent over Donald :-)
The intact left grip is one piece, the 90 degrees angle must have been done with some heat. 14,5 cm following the inside of the curve. Probably sourced from some local type of goat.

Kind regards,
Eric.

werecow · 30th July 2024, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

You could also more accurately call it Trump, ince it's the right ear.

He's nowhere near as sharp.

(Sorry, could not resist.)

Rafngard · 31st July 2024, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werecow

He's nowhere near as sharp.

(Sorry, could not resist.)

The sharpest of all time! So sharp folks! So sharp, it'll cut things you've never even heard of. I call it, shippy sharp.
That's right, shippy sharp.

*plays an invisible accordion*

Lee · 31st July 2024, 03:42 PM

OK, I see and appreciate the humor, but NO more politics unless you want to take a vacation from here until the election is passed.

Jim McDougall · 5th August 2024, 12:31 AM

Getting back to the topic, Ive had one of these for some time, and when discovering it was attributed to the ZEYBEKS, I was intrigued as it was another esoteric example of these Anatolian/ Transcaucasian regions' edged weapons .

Many of us of course remember the 'Black Sea yataghan' thing, which turned out to be a Laz weapon.

In the obscure title "A Magyar Faji Vandur" (J.Vichy, Budapest, 1897) which was cited in "The Origin of the Shashka", Triikman & Jacobsen, Copenhagen, 1941, some of these weapons with curious pommel styles and unusually curved blades are described.

The Zeybeks are described at 'outlaw/bandits' with very complicated origins who seem situated in 'Pontic' regions in E, Turkey, but this needs to be better explained by those well versed in ethno-geography there.
It seems the Laz group are equally described as outlaw-bandit etc.
The Zeybeks seem notably mentioned in the conflicts and insurgencies in these regions in late 19th into early 20th c.

It seems that the edged weaponry of these areas Georgia; Armenia; Azerbijian; Trebizon, Erzerum and the Transcaucusus, Anatolia in general have some of the most unusual features and characteristics of most. Further, they seem to defy any pragmatic explanation for these, and it seems are not 'old' forms, almost as if to in some ways relate to atavistic forms or perhaps exaggerated symbolism.

I'd like to hear thoughts and observations on what you guys think......why are these weapons so weird?

Being an aviation guy......the T-tail on the Zeybek reminds me of a DC-9, but thats of course not relevant.

Klop · 7th August 2024, 03:50 PM

I have another T-handle, in that case might even be the same one horn split lengthwise. Can't see the rest because some laquered kind of linen wrap. The solid point transfers to hollow and the back of the hand faces flat surfaces. In case of the "van Gogh" the ears are both solid and not flat, better quality. The T is a great way to prevent it slipping out of the hand - one of many variations to achieve that goal. It feels kinda naked missing the one ear, especially because I'm right handed.

But the real topic is the translation request, I'd still like to know what is written in the blade :-)

kind regards,
Eric.

28th July 2024, 07:34 PM	#1
Klop Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 63	van Gogh Zeybek yatagan translation assistance Dear fellow members, I found this T-handled (Zeybek) yatagan, unfortunately it's missing an ear. It was brown but cleand up rather easliy, and from under the rust some insriptions appeared. The year 1285 (1868) I get but for the rest of the text I have no clue what it says. Can someone read and translate this? Next to the year I wouldn't be surprised if it's the makers name, when holding the blade that is the left side. The right side has the longer text, from the looks of it only words and no numbers. Thanks in advance! Eric. Attached Images

5th August 2024, 12:31 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,895	Getting back to the topic, Ive had one of these for some time, and when discovering it was attributed to the ZEYBEKS, I was intrigued as it was another esoteric example of these Anatolian/ Transcaucasian regions' edged weapons . Many of us of course remember the 'Black Sea yataghan' thing, which turned out to be a Laz weapon. In the obscure title "A Magyar Faji Vandur" (J.Vichy, Budapest, 1897) which was cited in "The Origin of the Shashka", Triikman & Jacobsen, Copenhagen, 1941, some of these weapons with curious pommel styles and unusually curved blades are described. The Zeybeks are described at 'outlaw/bandits' with very complicated origins who seem situated in 'Pontic' regions in E, Turkey, but this needs to be better explained by those well versed in ethno-geography there. It seems the Laz group are equally described as outlaw-bandit etc. The Zeybeks seem notably mentioned in the conflicts and insurgencies in these regions in late 19th into early 20th c. It seems that the edged weaponry of these areas Georgia; Armenia; Azerbijian; Trebizon, Erzerum and the Transcaucusus, Anatolia in general have some of the most unusual features and characteristics of most. Further, they seem to defy any pragmatic explanation for these, and it seems are not 'old' forms, almost as if to in some ways relate to atavistic forms or perhaps exaggerated symbolism. I'd like to hear thoughts and observations on what you guys think......why are these weapons so weird? Being an aviation guy......the T-tail on the Zeybek reminds me of a DC-9, but thats of course not relevant. Attached Images

7th August 2024, 03:50 PM	#9
Klop Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 63	I have another T-handle, in that case might even be the same one horn split lengthwise. Can't see the rest because some laquered kind of linen wrap. The solid point transfers to hollow and the back of the hand faces flat surfaces. In case of the "van Gogh" the ears are both solid and not flat, better quality. The T is a great way to prevent it slipping out of the hand - one of many variations to achieve that goal. It feels kinda naked missing the one ear, especially because I'm right handed. But the real topic is the translation request, I'd still like to know what is written in the blade :-) kind regards, Eric. Attached Images

30th July 2024, 04:32 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,895	VAN GOGH yataghan!!! Good one Eric!!! love it!

30th July 2024, 05:07 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,167	You could also more accurately call it Trump, ince it's the right ear.

30th July 2024, 07:29 PM	#4
Klop Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 63	yep, the right side is lost but I elected Vincent over Donald :-) The intact left grip is one piece, the 90 degrees angle must have been done with some heat. 14,5 cm following the inside of the curve. Probably sourced from some local type of goat. Kind regards, Eric.

31st July 2024, 03:42 PM	#7
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 910	OK, I see and appreciate the humor, but NO more politics unless you want to take a vacation from here until the election is passed.