Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Chris Evans · 24th May 2005, 03:22 AM

Justin,

I'll start by acknowledging that it is very hard to be conclusive from photographs alone, without actually inspecting the piece.

That said, everything from those photos reeks of a Victorian era repro. I have never seen a period piece like that one, and I have seen quite a few.

And that sheath: It does not look right for a renaissance piece, what the hilt purports to be. More like a 19th century modified military sheath. Could we have some detailed photos?

The squareness where the edge grind terminates, near the hilt, is also suggestive of comparatively recent manufacture. It just looks too much like a rolled blade that was machine finished.

That blade would have been more in keeping with an early small sword and is completely inconsistent with the hilt. At 33", it is too short for even a transitional rapier. And by that time swept hilts were abandoned because they offered inadequate hand protection in the tight double time sword play of the era. Foining blades were reduced to that length by the late 1600s-early 1700 and invariably sported much simpler hilts, incorporating a disc or dish of some sort to protect against thrusts.

Re your assertion re hardness and flex: Most rapier and small sword blades were not particularly hard, seldom going beyond 45Rc, as they didn't need to be since they were not primarily cutters, rather thrusters. However, they were very springy. Edged thrusting swords that are used for fencing very quickly pick up dents and nicks because the edges have no strength in them against contact with other edges; And that would have been consistent with theatrical stage fighting - The hilt precludes dueling.

And how sharp is the blade, especially near the tip? If it still sports some nicks, that means that it hasn't been sharpened or dulled since used. If it was a real sword, it would have had a keen edge on the foible.

In closing, I suggest that you look in Norman's "The Rapier and Small Sword", the standard reference book for dating hilts. If that does not give a definitive answer, do consult with an expert.

Cheers
Chris

24th May 2005, 03:22 AM	#9
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Justin, I'll start by acknowledging that it is very hard to be conclusive from photographs alone, without actually inspecting the piece. That said, everything from those photos reeks of a Victorian era repro. I have never seen a period piece like that one, and I have seen quite a few. And that sheath: It does not look right for a renaissance piece, what the hilt purports to be. More like a 19th century modified military sheath. Could we have some detailed photos? The squareness where the edge grind terminates, near the hilt, is also suggestive of comparatively recent manufacture. It just looks too much like a rolled blade that was machine finished. That blade would have been more in keeping with an early small sword and is completely inconsistent with the hilt. At 33", it is too short for even a transitional rapier. And by that time swept hilts were abandoned because they offered inadequate hand protection in the tight double time sword play of the era. Foining blades were reduced to that length by the late 1600s-early 1700 and invariably sported much simpler hilts, incorporating a disc or dish of some sort to protect against thrusts. Re your assertion re hardness and flex: Most rapier and small sword blades were not particularly hard, seldom going beyond 45Rc, as they didn't need to be since they were not primarily cutters, rather thrusters. However, they were very springy. Edged thrusting swords that are used for fencing very quickly pick up dents and nicks because the edges have no strength in them against contact with other edges; And that would have been consistent with theatrical stage fighting - The hilt precludes dueling. And how sharp is the blade, especially near the tip? If it still sports some nicks, that means that it hasn't been sharpened or dulled since used. If it was a real sword, it would have had a keen edge on the foible. In closing, I suggest that you look in Norman's "The Rapier and Small Sword", the standard reference book for dating hilts. If that does not give a definitive answer, do consult with an expert. Cheers Chris Last edited by Chris Evans; 24th May 2005 at 04:18 AM.