Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

erlikhan · 15th December 2004, 11:19 PM

Well I didn't mean to provacate and even thanked for the apologizes, and I am sure I am not the one to carry the discussion to offense and signs of general hatred.
Moghuls came to the stage of history in 8th century and just as a record of existence, not any significant effect on politics, out of today's Mongolia to north, and that was 500 years after Turkic Huns invading and conquering China, 300 years after Attila in Europe, and 1-2 centuries after Gokturks ruling from Caspian sea to whole China including Mongolia, even having capitol Otuken established in central Mongolia of today( like Huns as well). Moghuls became a big power even 100-120 years after Seljuks defeated Byzance in 1071 Malazgirt and entered Anadolu. And ancient Persian weaponry still so developed and strong in the age of Turks ? Of course not. That is one of the reasons why Arabs easily conquered Persia by 1 single battle, and later Turks ruled there from 10th to 19th century. Well, if some obvious feelings mix into any kind of theories so much, I am sure neither I nor you will cause nobody to need to lock topics anymore, but definitely will cause time waste and pollution

Jeff, as I told, the Schytian-1500 b.c. information was certainly from Azerbaijan museum's definition for their samples. I am not an expert or especially interested in Schytians myself. My interest mainly aroused after I acquired this weapons. I remember even that I wrote in the forum that I was happy to see the museum's definition dating older, as I was assuming my weapons dating to 900-1000 before. Mines are from North Azerbaijan - Dagestan region. I am sure about it. And that area was ruled and established by Schytians for centuries like Ukraine, and unlike Palestine and Syria, which were occupied for short time. I am almost sure about it. Then 1-do they belong to Schytians and closer time or 2- if older and if not Schytian , to whom do they belong? The long sword is 90 cms. Who lived in that area and needed to produce such weapons before 900s b.c.? Any information?
10th century b.c. for iron work in Ukraine can be logical. What I said was just; iron working didn't require huge technological level which can't be reached by any community in the region, after once learning its clues, and no tribe would keep victorious, or even just independent if they used bronze weapons against their iron using neighbors. And I know horse riding started much earlier, but I said "mounted riding", and training, developing stronger horses, with which, horsemen became able to sit and control the horse better from the front part of its back, instead of the rear part. You can see that difference from Asyrian wall decorations. In 1000s, riders sit onto the back part, and in 700s, closer to the front shoulder, like today. Before that change, horsemen were not beneficiary in wars . Horses were preferred mainly to ride war charriots. Even camels were better than horses in a battle before these developments.
And, if you can give any link to pictures of well preserved samples of bronze or iron swords of Schytians, -and other tribes around before christ, especially Hittites and Asyrians, I will be grateful to you.
regards

15th December 2004, 11:19 PM	#15
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Well I didn't mean to provacate and even thanked for the apologizes, and I am sure I am not the one to carry the discussion to offense and signs of general hatred. Moghuls came to the stage of history in 8th century and just as a record of existence, not any significant effect on politics, out of today's Mongolia to north, and that was 500 years after Turkic Huns invading and conquering China, 300 years after Attila in Europe, and 1-2 centuries after Gokturks ruling from Caspian sea to whole China including Mongolia, even having capitol Otuken established in central Mongolia of today( like Huns as well). Moghuls became a big power even 100-120 years after Seljuks defeated Byzance in 1071 Malazgirt and entered Anadolu. And ancient Persian weaponry still so developed and strong in the age of Turks ? Of course not. That is one of the reasons why Arabs easily conquered Persia by 1 single battle, and later Turks ruled there from 10th to 19th century. Well, if some obvious feelings mix into any kind of theories so much, I am sure neither I nor you will cause nobody to need to lock topics anymore, but definitely will cause time waste and pollution Jeff, as I told, the Schytian-1500 b.c. information was certainly from Azerbaijan museum's definition for their samples. I am not an expert or especially interested in Schytians myself. My interest mainly aroused after I acquired this weapons. I remember even that I wrote in the forum that I was happy to see the museum's definition dating older, as I was assuming my weapons dating to 900-1000 before. Mines are from North Azerbaijan - Dagestan region. I am sure about it. And that area was ruled and established by Schytians for centuries like Ukraine, and unlike Palestine and Syria, which were occupied for short time. I am almost sure about it. Then 1-do they belong to Schytians and closer time or 2- if older and if not Schytian , to whom do they belong? The long sword is 90 cms. Who lived in that area and needed to produce such weapons before 900s b.c.? Any information? 10th century b.c. for iron work in Ukraine can be logical. What I said was just; iron working didn't require huge technological level which can't be reached by any community in the region, after once learning its clues, and no tribe would keep victorious, or even just independent if they used bronze weapons against their iron using neighbors. And I know horse riding started much earlier, but I said "mounted riding", and training, developing stronger horses, with which, horsemen became able to sit and control the horse better from the front part of its back, instead of the rear part. You can see that difference from Asyrian wall decorations. In 1000s, riders sit onto the back part, and in 700s, closer to the front shoulder, like today. Before that change, horsemen were not beneficiary in wars . Horses were preferred mainly to ride war charriots. Even camels were better than horses in a battle before these developments. And, if you can give any link to pictures of well preserved samples of bronze or iron swords of Schytians, -and other tribes around before christ, especially Hittites and Asyrians, I will be grateful to you. regards Last edited by erlikhan; 16th December 2004 at 10:32 AM.