Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Burmese Dha/ Thai Daab...why Guardless????

fearn · 10th September 2009, 03:08 AM

Hi Aiontay,

I'm not sure about the bit about a guard. I've got a woodsman's pal with a D guard, and it's sure handy around blackberries.

That said, I think Atlantia got it right in part. The Thai style for fighting is much more like stick-fighting, and they parry with the blade.

That said, let's step back a sec. Not that many blades have guards, and not all guards are guarding the hand. If you think about it, the hand-shielding guards got best developed in post-Renaissance Europe, and on Chinese daos to a lesser extent. As for the second, guards can also serve to shield the blade from rain by sealing the top of the scabbard (as with the jian), serve as finger hooks (European and Indian swords, and the sai), or serve as secondary attacking points (the long cross-guards on knightly longswords and greatswords for example). It's worth remembering that European swords started with simple cross-guards (symbolic, and good for punching when you get caught inside), and many people actually looped their fingers over cross-guards, rendering the guard essentially useless. The crossbars of later guards were added to this basic design to protect that vulnerable finger.

So, why not more guards? Part of the reason is about tuning the sword. This is about hand-shock. Swords flex when they hit things, and like any bar (or string, for that matter) there are nodes (where the vibration is zero) and anti-nodes (where the vibration maximizes). One typical node is the end of the sword, and that's where most people hold most swords. Another node is in the middle. Antinodes tend to be around the 1/4 and 3/4 points.

Dhas solve the vibration problem another way, by lengthening the hilt so that you can hold it by the base of the blade and you will be holding it at a node. That's why, in many cases, the hilt is almost as long as the blade. The 1:1 ratio makes it easy to minimize vibration at the middle. The pommel also helps with this tuning process, and that's why (I think) many of the dhas with shorter hilts have bigger pommels. They're tuning the blade so that it's comfortable to chop or slice with.

Now, you introduce a cross-guard (or something more complex), and the vibrational situation gets that much messier, because the guard is vibrating too. It's possible to have a long hilt and a complex guard--Renaissance great swords do it--but it's not that easy. If you think about it, most European swords with complex guards have really short hilts, and part of that is to minimize the hand-shock while using the blade.

So it's a trade-off between two types of safety: guarding the hand against attacks, and guarding it across the shock (and pain) of blade vibration. AFAIK, the people who developed the dha thought it was simpler to train people to keep others' blades away from their wrists, whereas westerners learned to love punching with the hilt, and developed the guard around that function.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

F

PS: I learned about hand-shock by reading, and also by trying to make a "Dha" out of a cut-down machete blade. From that experience, I can tell you that the length of the hilt does have a huge affect on how much shock your hand feels. Get that length wrong, and it hurts to cut with the blade.

10th September 2009, 03:08 AM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Aiontay, I'm not sure about the bit about a guard. I've got a woodsman's pal with a D guard, and it's sure handy around blackberries. That said, I think Atlantia got it right in part. The Thai style for fighting is much more like stick-fighting, and they parry with the blade. That said, let's step back a sec. Not that many blades have guards, and not all guards are guarding the hand. If you think about it, the hand-shielding guards got best developed in post-Renaissance Europe, and on Chinese daos to a lesser extent. As for the second, guards can also serve to shield the blade from rain by sealing the top of the scabbard (as with the jian), serve as finger hooks (European and Indian swords, and the sai), or serve as secondary attacking points (the long cross-guards on knightly longswords and greatswords for example). It's worth remembering that European swords started with simple cross-guards (symbolic, and good for punching when you get caught inside), and many people actually looped their fingers over cross-guards, rendering the guard essentially useless. The crossbars of later guards were added to this basic design to protect that vulnerable finger. So, why not more guards? Part of the reason is about tuning the sword. This is about hand-shock. Swords flex when they hit things, and like any bar (or string, for that matter) there are nodes (where the vibration is zero) and anti-nodes (where the vibration maximizes). One typical node is the end of the sword, and that's where most people hold most swords. Another node is in the middle. Antinodes tend to be around the 1/4 and 3/4 points. Dhas solve the vibration problem another way, by lengthening the hilt so that you can hold it by the base of the blade and you will be holding it at a node. That's why, in many cases, the hilt is almost as long as the blade. The 1:1 ratio makes it easy to minimize vibration at the middle. The pommel also helps with this tuning process, and that's why (I think) many of the dhas with shorter hilts have bigger pommels. They're tuning the blade so that it's comfortable to chop or slice with. Now, you introduce a cross-guard (or something more complex), and the vibrational situation gets that much messier, because the guard is vibrating too. It's possible to have a long hilt and a complex guard--Renaissance great swords do it--but it's not that easy. If you think about it, most European swords with complex guards have really short hilts, and part of that is to minimize the hand-shock while using the blade. So it's a trade-off between two types of safety: guarding the hand against attacks, and guarding it across the shock (and pain) of blade vibration. AFAIK, the people who developed the dha thought it was simpler to train people to keep others' blades away from their wrists, whereas westerners learned to love punching with the hilt, and developed the guard around that function. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. F PS: I learned about hand-shock by reading, and also by trying to make a "Dha" out of a cut-down machete blade. From that experience, I can tell you that the length of the hilt does have a huge affect on how much shock your hand feels. Get that length wrong, and it hurts to cut with the blade.