Kisak, thank you for responding on the question about cuphilts in Sweden. I know the excellent references by Berg and Seitz, which are both outstanding, but unfortunately do not have them with me. I was curious about whether the cuphilt, which did in some degree get to Germany, got as far north as Sweden as so many German sword types did.
Good information on the 'commanders swords' which are indeed a heavier version of the standard smallsword style, and that is an excellent example of civilian style hilts combined with heavier blades for military use.
This is much the same as in Great Britain as the 1796 regulation patterns were introduced. While the cavalry officers had a stirrup hilt sabre for light cavalry, the heavy cavalry had an 'undress' basket hilt type sword for regular wear, and a 'boatshell' type hilt similar to smallsword design for dress occasions, also with a heavy straight blade.
Hello Peter, and I'm really glad to see you posting here on this! You are right, that most of the rapiers associated with civilian town wear and duelling etc. are indeed 'lighter' and certainly would not be effective in the military combat situations typically considered.
I think what we are finding is that apparantly while the hilt forms are essentially of the styles popular with civilian weapons of the period, the blades began to become more substantial in military configurations. In the 18th century the rapier term itself seems to have somewhat fallen out of use, except with the Spanish and Portuguese who profoundly maintained thier traditions in swordsmanship.
The cuphilt style was maintained in the Caribbean and many of the colonies in New Spain, and the 'dragoon' swords known as 'bilbo's' have a heavy interpretation swept hilt rapier style. These swords were likely used well into the 19th century.
It seems like on these forums, many discussions result in disparity in terminology in trying to classify weapons. While it seems that such emphasis on terminology would be of little importance in studying the actual weapons, I think it is important to understand the terms and how variations may have developed or applied. Having to rely on contemporary narrative or accounts in such study it is important to know that the weapon being described is actually the one we presume it to be.
I think one great example of this is that accounts of the death of Magellan describes him being killed by an Islander with what is presumed to be a 'kampilan'. We can only presume this refers to the type of sword we now know in the Philippines, but perhaps several hundred years ago it meant another form altogether.
Of course I know that you are more than well established in these tenets of study
and I am only recounting this as a matter of perspective in the thread, so please pardon my ramblings. I really am very honored to have you join us here.
Thanks very much Kisak and Peter,
All the best,
Jim