Thanks a lot for your kind words and wise considerations, Michael ... may i say Master Trömner ?
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To be more precise and trying to 'upgrade' my first introduction, besides the different age and historic/geographic active life given to the two different pieces by such website, their purpose is similarly described, as having both been mounted as cannons (so to say); the way the mounting is described is quite intrincate (in castillian) and, if i well understand, is not far from the attached illustration, that i stole from Pope's work ... rather than trying to technically describe it myself.
Obviously and as you well confirm, this attribution is incorrect, at least on what refers the bronze example, whether called signal mortar (or cannon), thunder mug or böller, as you expertly name it.
Actually and within my limitations i feared that, the later iron example, having its rear end also a bit swamped, wide enough for an upright posture, and also considering its 'cubic' volumetry (no barrel assumed length), might also be a böller, but you have far much better eyes than me for apreciating these things, so i follow your diagnosis.
On what concerns the Aljubarrota attribution to the discussed (real) hand canons, like yours and my example, i confess i am presently facing a dilemma which, for as much as i investigate, can't manage to solve.
It is known that, what period chroniclers (witnesses or not) and contemporaneous specialists discuss, is the use of 'stationary' artillery (bombards and trons), never mentioning or aproaching the existance of portable firearms (hand cannons) in this battle. I have recently had such same statement from a Portuguese early artillery scholar, whom i have contacted for such purpose. Eventually he added that, up to nowadays, hand artillery in Portugal is documentally recorded to have appeared at a later period (mid XV century).
The attribution of Aljubarrota 'earth finding' to the example you have once kindly posted in my hand cannon thread, which made part of a Liege exhibition, was apparently given by Rainer Daehnhardt, who was involved in this exhibition and contributed for the catalogue composition. If nothing appears in contrary, next Saturday i will visit him at his Lisbon (Cascais) shop, and will directly put him the question, to hear what evidence he has that denies the inumerous historians narrations and conclusions.
In the meantime, if you dear Michael have some material towards the evidence of hand cannons in the Aljubarrota battle, i would humbly beg you to share it; as i will surely come back here to post what Rainer has to say about this subject.
Danksche.
Fernando
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