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Originally Posted by David
Jussi, have you ever tried holding this type of keris hilt in this manner. Besides, I have serious doubts that the bugis keris in question would ever be used in an overhand stabbing action like the one shown in the relief.  |
What I have done or have not done is irrelevant David. What is relevant however is that ancient people - so I believe - did not fight with weapons. - They fought with their fighting art and used the weapons only as an extension of their art. Take for example old Western and South East Asian wood workers; surely some of their tools were similar to each other but they surely also had in some ways different methods of using those tools which makes comparing them the same as comparing apples to oranges.
Same thing here - if one has no understanding of the methodology of how weapons were used on a culture at a given time how can one make claims on whether a weapon is good or not or why a weapon is shaped the way it is? I have a pretty hard time to accept that a tiny little keris is used on the same manner as a big one. It just isīnt very logical. Also it is good to remember that there were big differences on the fighting systems found in the Indonesian archipelago and even on some found on the same areas (so Iīve read). If there are big differences it isnt logical to assume that all those systems used weapons on the same manner either; not to mention the circumstances must also have played a part on shaping the ways weapons were used.
Take ancient Japan for example. The warriors had two swords; one long and one short. Why? - because in constricted space (like on a vessel on our case?) a long blade was not very usable hence it was used only outdoors whereas the shorter one was used inside and on situations where space was constricted.
Lets face it: more or less none here - myself included - have a clue of how the keris was actually used and whether there were different ways of using it (this I believe). We all have a bias that it is used X whereas the truth may very well have been Y, Z or something in between. And it may also have been that one mans Z was at another situation X as just like tools can be used on various ways depending on the situation at hand so can weapons: a rifle is a rifle yes but you can make devastating blows with it choose you to do so.
The relief pictured is from a time when these weapons were actually used, and used a lot. Saying that it isnt a truthful portrayal of how some (the pictured) were worn and used makes little sense from the standpoint of November 2008 as no-one from this forum was witnessing the events that took place when that carving was made.
Instead of us all having strong opinions we maybe should accept that we really dont know and form new hypothesis to broaden our views on how things might of have been. We dont learn new things by clinging ourselves to old ideas but by challenging the status quo and finding new layers of understanding beneath the surface clouded by of our biases
Thanks,
J