[jthommo]

Thanks to all for the information
The second item is obviously what you said a Niginato handle
I am posting more pictures of this in the hope that someone may be able to
give me some idea of it's age
The gold scrolling on it is actually under the black paint

As always thanks for everyone's advice

Valjhun I am not a collector and I have no idea what something like this is worth if you do I am certainly open to offers

Thanks Thommo