Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

baganing_balyan · 24th June 2008, 04:17 AM

Although my interest is primarily about kalis or mindanaoan kris, I have found interesting etymologies and folklore that point the very origin of kris back to the temples of southern and northern India.

A malaysian website has accused me of assuming without bases. That's not really the case.

for instance: when I said naga (snake) sword orginally evolved from nair malabar. I analyzed the sanskrit etymology of naga, nagar, nayar, and nair. I also checked the snake-based belief system of the nayar or nair people. I also went back to Mahabharata, a hindu epic, to check the relationship between garuda, the bird-man, and the nagas, the snake people.

I did not include them in my blog since there is no obvious philippine connection.

nayar or nair people believe in snake gods. nagar or naga (snake) came from that belief system and from the folklore of those believers.

the nayars and nairs belong to a higher cast-- probably Brahmin since nayar is also related to temple-- thus, nair malabar, the temple sword.

Buddhists too have a concept of naga-- power and protection. There are images of buddha hovered by cobras or serpents.

Any place reached by Buddhism, there is a concept and image of naga-- thailand, cambodia, vietnam, indonesia, malaysia, but not philippines. There is no known pre-spanish buddhist account in the philippines. that's the reason why the handles of mindanaon krises are different-- no indo-buddhist handles depicting garuda or naga.

People ask me for bibliography, i am writing a blog not a paper. My only hope is to produce a seminal idea that will hopefully challenge researchers all over who have access and resources to expound more.

I use Mahabaratha and ramayana for instance to understand Indian folklore. Do i need to write even the name of the translator? I don't think so. I expect though for anyone interested to check the epics. They can even be read online.

I just don't understand why I often read that kris is not of malay origin but of javanese. Aren't javanese malay? Javanese language is austronesian related to other austronesian languages in southeast asia like Tagalog of the Philippines.

There are also temples in North India where the images of naga sword predate the javanese temple reliefs by centuries. In an archaeological point of view, that is enough an indication that keris could come from naga of northern India. The fact also that Indo-buddhist empires were established in Java, the idea that keris is of Indo-Buddhist origin is reinforced.

Thanks a lot.

baganing-balyan

24th June 2008, 04:17 AM	#12
baganing_balyan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 89	Although my interest is primarily about kalis or mindanaoan kris, I have found interesting etymologies and folklore that point the very origin of kris back to the temples of southern and northern India. A malaysian website has accused me of assuming without bases. That's not really the case. for instance: when I said naga (snake) sword orginally evolved from nair malabar. I analyzed the sanskrit etymology of naga, nagar, nayar, and nair. I also checked the snake-based belief system of the nayar or nair people. I also went back to Mahabharata, a hindu epic, to check the relationship between garuda, the bird-man, and the nagas, the snake people. I did not include them in my blog since there is no obvious philippine connection. nayar or nair people believe in snake gods. nagar or naga (snake) came from that belief system and from the folklore of those believers. the nayars and nairs belong to a higher cast-- probably Brahmin since nayar is also related to temple-- thus, nair malabar, the temple sword. Buddhists too have a concept of naga-- power and protection. There are images of buddha hovered by cobras or serpents. Any place reached by Buddhism, there is a concept and image of naga-- thailand, cambodia, vietnam, indonesia, malaysia, but not philippines. There is no known pre-spanish buddhist account in the philippines. that's the reason why the handles of mindanaon krises are different-- no indo-buddhist handles depicting garuda or naga. People ask me for bibliography, i am writing a blog not a paper. My only hope is to produce a seminal idea that will hopefully challenge researchers all over who have access and resources to expound more. I use Mahabaratha and ramayana for instance to understand Indian folklore. Do i need to write even the name of the translator? I don't think so. I expect though for anyone interested to check the epics. They can even be read online. I just don't understand why I often read that kris is not of malay origin but of javanese. Aren't javanese malay? Javanese language is austronesian related to other austronesian languages in southeast asia like Tagalog of the Philippines. There are also temples in North India where the images of naga sword predate the javanese temple reliefs by centuries. In an archaeological point of view, that is enough an indication that keris could come from naga of northern India. The fact also that Indo-buddhist empires were established in Java, the idea that keris is of Indo-Buddhist origin is reinforced. Thanks a lot. baganing-balyan