Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

A. G. Maisey · 27th September 2007, 10:21 PM

Pak Usmen, I have not encountered any esoteric beliefs attached to dhapur laler mengeng.

I've just had a look at several books where I would expect to find mention of this if there was some belief attached to laler mengeng, and there is no mention of such a belief. Apart from this, there seems to be a little confusion about exactly what the characteristics of laler mengeng are.

I've always known it as a straight keris with an inwards turning kembang kacang, as shown in Ensiklopedi, but some people seem to believe it is a straight keris with the kembang kacang in correct orientation, but constrained within the bounds of the gandhik.

This is not at all unusual in discussion of dhapur; it can be a source for considerable disagreement between equally knowledgeable people.In fact, in my experience, almost everything to do with keris can generate unending discussion, especially if we have two---or more--- knowledgeable people, both of whom are convinced they are right--- when maybe there is no "right", and no "wrong", just different opinions.

Rick, to me, this looks like a Mataram tombak where the metuk has lost form; the base of a Mataram metuk spreads more widely than the metuk in this tombak. This metuk is more like Tuban, but the blade body is totally unlike Tuban. To give a reasonably supportable opinion it would really be necessary to handle this tombak.

27th September 2007, 10:21 PM	#15
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,965	Pak Usmen, I have not encountered any esoteric beliefs attached to dhapur laler mengeng. I've just had a look at several books where I would expect to find mention of this if there was some belief attached to laler mengeng, and there is no mention of such a belief. Apart from this, there seems to be a little confusion about exactly what the characteristics of laler mengeng are. I've always known it as a straight keris with an inwards turning kembang kacang, as shown in Ensiklopedi, but some people seem to believe it is a straight keris with the kembang kacang in correct orientation, but constrained within the bounds of the gandhik. This is not at all unusual in discussion of dhapur; it can be a source for considerable disagreement between equally knowledgeable people.In fact, in my experience, almost everything to do with keris can generate unending discussion, especially if we have two---or more--- knowledgeable people, both of whom are convinced they are right--- when maybe there is no "right", and no "wrong", just different opinions. Rick, to me, this looks like a Mataram tombak where the metuk has lost form; the base of a Mataram metuk spreads more widely than the metuk in this tombak. This metuk is more like Tuban, but the blade body is totally unlike Tuban. To give a reasonably supportable opinion it would really be necessary to handle this tombak.