Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - What is the origen of Tibetan style Aceh blade forms?

josh stout · 27th June 2007, 06:38 PM

So far we seem to have three hypotheses.

First, the blade type may be descended from straight bladed Asian swords going back to the Bronze Age. This would be true in China and Tibet, but would need some archeology to support this in Aceh.

Second, the blade might have come through Chinese traders, possibly as part of the spread of Buddhism. This would date to the 12th or 13th centuries when the blade type was also spread to Japan. Buddhist iconography in the region and accounts of trade rutes with China make this plausible.

Third, the blade type may have been developed endogenously and simply represent the fact that there are only so many ways to make a sword.

These hypotheses are only verifiable through actually finding swords of the appropriate age. Even then, it would be difficult to tell if a bronze sword had a particular look due to a regional commonality of design or through a coincidence due to design constraints. Still, a parsimonious interpretation of a straight bronze sword would be that it was related to the similar swords in the area. So that would be the most conclusive finding. A 13th century depiction would help, but would not rule out the possibility of a still earlier origin. If there were an archeological record, a transition from one sword type to another would be diagnostic.

A recent endogenous origin should be the null hypothesis, but it is also the most difficult to verify. No matter how many recent examples are found, it does not preclude an earlier origin.

Now for some questions about less conclusive evidence: What is the name of these swords? I think they are called piso panjang or long knife. Is there a shorter version? Could there have once been one? The utility knives found throughout China, Mongolia, and Tibet as well as the tanto of Japan all look like short versions of the piso panjang. The knife blade form is just as old as the saber version if not older.

So yes, I am wildly speculating, but I think it is still in the region where the ideas are at least theoretically verifiable, even if practically they never are.
Josh

27th June 2007, 06:38 PM	#8
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	So far we seem to have three hypotheses. First, the blade type may be descended from straight bladed Asian swords going back to the Bronze Age. This would be true in China and Tibet, but would need some archeology to support this in Aceh. Second, the blade might have come through Chinese traders, possibly as part of the spread of Buddhism. This would date to the 12th or 13th centuries when the blade type was also spread to Japan. Buddhist iconography in the region and accounts of trade rutes with China make this plausible. Third, the blade type may have been developed endogenously and simply represent the fact that there are only so many ways to make a sword. These hypotheses are only verifiable through actually finding swords of the appropriate age. Even then, it would be difficult to tell if a bronze sword had a particular look due to a regional commonality of design or through a coincidence due to design constraints. Still, a parsimonious interpretation of a straight bronze sword would be that it was related to the similar swords in the area. So that would be the most conclusive finding. A 13th century depiction would help, but would not rule out the possibility of a still earlier origin. If there were an archeological record, a transition from one sword type to another would be diagnostic. A recent endogenous origin should be the null hypothesis, but it is also the most difficult to verify. No matter how many recent examples are found, it does not preclude an earlier origin. Now for some questions about less conclusive evidence: What is the name of these swords? I think they are called piso panjang or long knife. Is there a shorter version? Could there have once been one? The utility knives found throughout China, Mongolia, and Tibet as well as the tanto of Japan all look like short versions of the piso panjang. The knife blade form is just as old as the saber version if not older. So yes, I am wildly speculating, but I think it is still in the region where the ideas are at least theoretically verifiable, even if practically they never are. Josh