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Jim McDougall · 24th February 2005, 04:23 AM

Outstanding observations on this Ottoman kilic everybody!!
In looking at this beautiful parabolic shamshir type blade, with pronounced yelman which as Philip has noted more categorizes this in the 'kilic' group, I am with Mike in thinking of North Africa.
As has also been noted by Philip, the triple X marking derives from European trade blades, particularly German. It seems that this symbolism had certain parallels in early occult/cabalistic devices and that three crosses were in apothecary connotation cautionary for deadly substances. Whether or not this application is relevant, it seems interesting to note. As often occurs on trade or native blades, multiplication of symbols presumably were thought to increase potency.

Also, this kilic blade seems much more a horsemans blade than the much shorter and clearly heavier and less parabolic blade of the Turkish kilic most commonly seen. This brings to mind the Mamluk sabres of the end of the 18th c. which of course were from Egypt. It is interesting that the etching on the blade resembles 'thuluth' which was commonly applied to edged weapons in Sudanese regions in the last quarter of the 19th century. Since these regions closest to Egypt were under Ottoman suzerainty at that time, it would seem plausible that a Mamluk type blade could have been remounted or joined with this hilt. The 'thuluth' motif might have then been applied, including the 'dukari' or opposed crescent moons marking that although commonly associated with the Saharan 'takouba', is also known to occur of Sudanese kaskaras with the thuluth application.
The fact that this marking is applied close to the cutting edge, as well as the application of 'thuluth' motif would suggest that this was done as addition to an existing blade and around the fullering. The central location of the 'moons' also concurs with location on thuluth covered kaskaras attributed in Briggs article to the Hausa's.

These suppositions are presuming that this etched decorative motif is in fact 'thuluth' as described, and not other similar motif. Since it is noted this has no inclinations toward Persian revival type pieces, it would seem unlikely that the calligraphy would be 'naskh' , a Persian form of this motif .

Best regards,
Jim

24th February 2005, 04:23 AM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	Outstanding observations on this Ottoman kilic everybody!! In looking at this beautiful parabolic shamshir type blade, with pronounced yelman which as Philip has noted more categorizes this in the 'kilic' group, I am with Mike in thinking of North Africa. As has also been noted by Philip, the triple X marking derives from European trade blades, particularly German. It seems that this symbolism had certain parallels in early occult/cabalistic devices and that three crosses were in apothecary connotation cautionary for deadly substances. Whether or not this application is relevant, it seems interesting to note. As often occurs on trade or native blades, multiplication of symbols presumably were thought to increase potency. Also, this kilic blade seems much more a horsemans blade than the much shorter and clearly heavier and less parabolic blade of the Turkish kilic most commonly seen. This brings to mind the Mamluk sabres of the end of the 18th c. which of course were from Egypt. It is interesting that the etching on the blade resembles 'thuluth' which was commonly applied to edged weapons in Sudanese regions in the last quarter of the 19th century. Since these regions closest to Egypt were under Ottoman suzerainty at that time, it would seem plausible that a Mamluk type blade could have been remounted or joined with this hilt. The 'thuluth' motif might have then been applied, including the 'dukari' or opposed crescent moons marking that although commonly associated with the Saharan 'takouba', is also known to occur of Sudanese kaskaras with the thuluth application. The fact that this marking is applied close to the cutting edge, as well as the application of 'thuluth' motif would suggest that this was done as addition to an existing blade and around the fullering. The central location of the 'moons' also concurs with location on thuluth covered kaskaras attributed in Briggs article to the Hausa's. These suppositions are presuming that this etched decorative motif is in fact 'thuluth' as described, and not other similar motif. Since it is noted this has no inclinations toward Persian revival type pieces, it would seem unlikely that the calligraphy would be 'naskh' , a Persian form of this motif . Best regards, Jim