Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Philip · 22nd February 2005, 06:42 AM

The blade form, with its raised "yelman" or back-edge, would indicate a kilij, not a shamshir. Blades with yelmans and radiused tip contours are associated with the Ottoman Empire. Although on rather rare occasions one sees a Persian saber whose blade has a back-edge, such examples still exhibit the markedly tapering profile and acute point that are characteristic of a shamshir.

On the specimen illustrated in this post, the style of the hilt is typically Ottoman. Based upon this characteristic, and the shape of the blade, there does not seem to be any connection with Qajar saber types, either original or revival.

The blade on this piece is decorated with etched calligraphic motifs. There are two die-struck "eyelash" marks, and X stamps in the fullers, which are common on European blades made for the Eastern market. One can also see that a long central section of the spine is "sunken", i.e. at a level below that of the forte and the yelman. This latter characteristic is seen on a number of Eastern European sabers. A remarkably similar blade, minus the markings, is seen on a Polish "karabela" saber (Historisches Museum der Stadt Wien, inv. no. 126244) published in W. Zablocki, CIECIA PRAWDZIWA SZABLA (Warsaw: Wydanictwo Sport i Turystika, 1988), pp 208-9. A closely-related specimen is on pp 206-7 (same collection, inv. no. 127454). That one is interesting for a dorsal fuller on the sunken central section, which parallels a Chinese example (Metropolitan Museum of Art, acc. no. 36.25.1473a,b); I discussed this and their Polish counterparts in my article "Some Notable Sabers of the Qing Dynasty at the Met. Mus. of Art", MET. MUS. JOURNAL, Vol 36/2001.

The position of the "eyelash" markings on the blade posted by Charles is rather close to the edge, which suggests that the edge may have been considerably ground down during its working life.

Over the years I have seen a fair number of European saber blades, mostly of the broad, multifullered hussar type, mounted in Ottoman hilts. It is possible that these were hilted up for issue to units in the Balkans, considering the proximity of that region to those parts of Europe in which those blades were so widely used.

22nd February 2005, 06:42 AM	#2
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	The blade form, with its raised "yelman" or back-edge, would indicate a kilij, not a shamshir. Blades with yelmans and radiused tip contours are associated with the Ottoman Empire. Although on rather rare occasions one sees a Persian saber whose blade has a back-edge, such examples still exhibit the markedly tapering profile and acute point that are characteristic of a shamshir. On the specimen illustrated in this post, the style of the hilt is typically Ottoman. Based upon this characteristic, and the shape of the blade, there does not seem to be any connection with Qajar saber types, either original or revival. The blade on this piece is decorated with etched calligraphic motifs. There are two die-struck "eyelash" marks, and X stamps in the fullers, which are common on European blades made for the Eastern market. One can also see that a long central section of the spine is "sunken", i.e. at a level below that of the forte and the yelman. This latter characteristic is seen on a number of Eastern European sabers. A remarkably similar blade, minus the markings, is seen on a Polish "karabela" saber (Historisches Museum der Stadt Wien, inv. no. 126244) published in W. Zablocki, CIECIA PRAWDZIWA SZABLA (Warsaw: Wydanictwo Sport i Turystika, 1988), pp 208-9. A closely-related specimen is on pp 206-7 (same collection, inv. no. 127454). That one is interesting for a dorsal fuller on the sunken central section, which parallels a Chinese example (Metropolitan Museum of Art, acc. no. 36.25.1473a,b); I discussed this and their Polish counterparts in my article "Some Notable Sabers of the Qing Dynasty at the Met. Mus. of Art", MET. MUS. JOURNAL, Vol 36/2001. The position of the "eyelash" markings on the blade posted by Charles is rather close to the edge, which suggests that the edge may have been considerably ground down during its working life. Over the years I have seen a fair number of European saber blades, mostly of the broad, multifullered hussar type, mounted in Ottoman hilts. It is possible that these were hilted up for issue to units in the Balkans, considering the proximity of that region to those parts of Europe in which those blades were so widely used.