Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 21st January 2007, 08:28 PM

Hi BJ,
It seems we have been running into some extremely esoteric topics lately, and these unusual markings appear possibly to be along the same trend. I cannot say that I have ever seen the X configuration with these toothed or rayed circles, but my inclination was toward influence from some European marking, perhaps Kabbalistic or talismanic likely seen on trade blade (s).

There were no markings associated with European makers as far as I could find, that had this unusual X pattern and the 'solar' symbols, but I did locate a Swiss blade which had two of the solar type circles and dating c.1560 (Wallace Collection p.390, a Holbein dagger).

I finally found a figure of an X topped by a dot, the same type configuration, shown as a geomantic character , on an engraved plate of these, that appeared in "The Magus, or Celestial Intelligencer" by Francis Barrett (London, 1801 and reprinted in "Amulets & Talismans, M.Gonzalez-Wippler,1995, p.208). While this reference is clearly of occult esoterica, what seems key is that before entering the arcane pursuits of the west, geomancy was practiced by the Arabs ( Gk. ge=earth manteia =divination) and had to do with foretelling future events or discovering hidden knowledge by connecting randomly placed dots with lines in one interpretation.

Since such early Arab occultism was probably known in degree in Muslim India, perhaps such symbolism as this might have suggested this unusual marking/configuration? The figure seen on the engraved plate with the X and dot is found on the line titled 'aquisito' (note the term clearly from the translated text taken from the original Arabic version).

The rayed circle is of course an ancient symbol which is found in numerous contexts, and as I have mentioned found in European markings, and I have seen Burmese dha with these same marks, also found on other edged weapons in SE Asia. Its purpose in the arrangement on this sword is unclear but hopefully others may offer more on that symbolism.

I always dread entering into discussions of such occult concepts as geomancy and other metaphysical topics which have acquired very negative connotations in recent times ,and here am only suggesting the structure of the arranged symbols and where I have discovered similar arrangement. It is often important to remember that in studying markings and elements of historical weapons, these represent beliefs and symbolism of the period and culture, and must be considered regardless of modern perceptions.

I hope this will lead to perspective which might help discover the most plausible explanation for these most interesting markings!

All the best,
Jim

21st January 2007, 08:28 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hi BJ, It seems we have been running into some extremely esoteric topics lately, and these unusual markings appear possibly to be along the same trend. I cannot say that I have ever seen the X configuration with these toothed or rayed circles, but my inclination was toward influence from some European marking, perhaps Kabbalistic or talismanic likely seen on trade blade (s). There were no markings associated with European makers as far as I could find, that had this unusual X pattern and the 'solar' symbols, but I did locate a Swiss blade which had two of the solar type circles and dating c.1560 (Wallace Collection p.390, a Holbein dagger). I finally found a figure of an X topped by a dot, the same type configuration, shown as a geomantic character , on an engraved plate of these, that appeared in "The Magus, or Celestial Intelligencer" by Francis Barrett (London, 1801 and reprinted in "Amulets & Talismans, M.Gonzalez-Wippler,1995, p.208). While this reference is clearly of occult esoterica, what seems key is that before entering the arcane pursuits of the west, geomancy was practiced by the Arabs ( Gk. ge=earth manteia =divination) and had to do with foretelling future events or discovering hidden knowledge by connecting randomly placed dots with lines in one interpretation. Since such early Arab occultism was probably known in degree in Muslim India, perhaps such symbolism as this might have suggested this unusual marking/configuration? The figure seen on the engraved plate with the X and dot is found on the line titled 'aquisito' (note the term clearly from the translated text taken from the original Arabic version). The rayed circle is of course an ancient symbol which is found in numerous contexts, and as I have mentioned found in European markings, and I have seen Burmese dha with these same marks, also found on other edged weapons in SE Asia. Its purpose in the arrangement on this sword is unclear but hopefully others may offer more on that symbolism. I always dread entering into discussions of such occult concepts as geomancy and other metaphysical topics which have acquired very negative connotations in recent times ,and here am only suggesting the structure of the arranged symbols and where I have discovered similar arrangement. It is often important to remember that in studying markings and elements of historical weapons, these represent beliefs and symbolism of the period and culture, and must be considered regardless of modern perceptions. I hope this will lead to perspective which might help discover the most plausible explanation for these most interesting markings! All the best, Jim