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Originally Posted by David
Spiral, really no need for you to continue to rub this in. It was late when i responded and i simply misread you. One remark i can laugh with you, the second is unnecessary.
Thanks for the photos of these beautifully crafted daggers. I do question the assumption (not just on your part) that any dagger depicting the devil is necessarily a satanic ritual tool used in some dark rite. Sometimes art is just art. I think dealers are quick to put such a tag on these items because the concept of "evil" fascinates many and they think (correctly) that the items will command higher prices. Blades like the last one, IMO, have no distinct satanic symbolism. Skulls and snakes do not necessarily point to satanism. Skulls and skeletal forms have been used in art by many cultures over the centuries and are not necessarially negative images. Snakes aren't either for that matter and in many cases signify life and regeneration. The skull is a very common Mason symbol for one.
The inverted liberty torch is very interesting in your first example, but i wonder if it doesn't have more of a political reference than a spiritual one. It's placement between a winged caduseus legged demon and an owl, a symbol of wisdom is very intriguing. It would be nice to see some closer images of this. Doesn't look like it's seen much use though.  |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by David
Spiral, really no need for you to continue to rub this in. It was late when i responded and i simply misread you. One remark i can laugh with you, the second is unnecessary.
Thanks for the photos of these beautifully crafted daggers. I do question the assumption (not just on your part) that any dagger depicting the devil is necessarily a satanic ritual tool used in some dark rite. Sometimes art is just art. I think dealers are quick to put such a tag on these items because the concept of "evil" fascinates many and they think (correctly) that the items will command higher prices. Blades like the last one, IMO, have no distinct satanic symbolism. Skulls and snakes do not necessarily point to satanism. Skulls and skeletal forms have been used in art by many cultures over the centuries and are not necessarially negative images. Snakes aren't either for that matter and in many cases signify life and regeneration. The skull is a very common Mason symbol for one.
The inverted liberty torch is very interesting in your first example, but i wonder if it doesn't have more of a political reference than a spiritual one. It's placement between a winged caduseus legged demon and an owl, a symbol of wisdom is very intriguing. It would be nice to see some closer images of this. Doesn't look like it's seen much use though. |
Yes Indeed sorry you took offence David it was early in the morning when i replied.
The first mention was a factual correction for you, I didnt imagine that would make you laugh, the second was meant to be the humour. Sorry that it fell flat for you. Written humour can be hard to interprit sometimes.
Religion & politics are very closely aligned i think, they are both often used by some to control others. I was under the impresion that what helped found many aristocratic satanist groups as a way of retaining the power they had lost to Politicians & clergy.
I would percieve the torches upside down as turning liberty on its head.
An owl is also a common satanic symbol , often refered to as moloch to whom human sacrifices are made.
I have further pictures of these daggers & others but without gaining the permision of the currant owners I am not prepared to post them.
i agree dealers like to make money, but both those mentioned are well known for thier expertise & in BRLs case especialy with American & European knives.
I am visiting a curator who specialises in theology,old occult,pagan, satanist etc. artifacts,books & symbolism next week for his veiw.
Since posting this here & elswere I have had a couple of offers from people who collect such items {or who have a "friend" who does in one case, whom seem in no doubt about what it is.}
I think the nature of the beast sends up a lot of denial from people.
Ive been researching this for 6 weeks & hoped someone here might actualy be able to add to the facts that i have been accumilating about these re. date & origin. Or be able to illustrate thier points against with other examples of such pieces & thier "christian group or fantasy piece" evidence.
Although numerous comments generaly from people totaly outside thier fields of expieriance or expertise are intresting I have yet to see anything of factual substance or even an awarness that such things exist!
Seems rather like wishfull thinking to me.
Perhaps an ethnographic arms forum wasnt the right place to post this.
Spiral