Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - 1730 Rapier or a Victorian 'Copy' .........any ideas?

Jim McDougall · 10th December 2006, 10:07 PM

Hi Katana,
Thanks for posting the marks. From the outset, these marks seem to be a linear interpretation stylized possibly from earlier authentic markings. I began checking the usual sources (sounds like Casablanca

!
In "Armourers Marks" Gyngell, 1959; "1000 Marks of European Blademakers", Lenkiewicz, 1991; and "Waffenkunde" W.Boeheim, 1890.......no sign of anything like these marks, no back to back crescents either.

Then finally, I found something interesting in "The Wallace Collection: European Arms & Armour", Vol.I, Sir James Mann, 1962....on p.56 in describing a suit of German armour, it is noted that on the gauntlets there ar sequential punched dots, three, and on the gorget plate are found punched crescents. These punched marks seem to appear in variation on a number of these armours, which it should be noted are often, if not typically seen on a number of these. Although of course very speculative, it may be suggested that the appearance of such markings on a weapon such as this sword, possibly made by an armourer of this cottage industry of reproduction armour of the Victorian period might be consistant with base familiarity of such marks on the authentic pieces.
It is well known that the familiar 'Genoan' sickle marks are placed essentially back to back, though not joined, and there are three dots at either end of each semicircle. Possibly this linear representation signifies literally back to back semicircles with three dots at either end.
Possibilities worth considering, on an increasingly fascinating sword

All the best,
Jim

10th December 2006, 10:07 PM	#35
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hi Katana, Thanks for posting the marks. From the outset, these marks seem to be a linear interpretation stylized possibly from earlier authentic markings. I began checking the usual sources (sounds like Casablanca! In "Armourers Marks" Gyngell, 1959; "1000 Marks of European Blademakers", Lenkiewicz, 1991; and "Waffenkunde" W.Boeheim, 1890.......no sign of anything like these marks, no back to back crescents either. Then finally, I found something interesting in "The Wallace Collection: European Arms & Armour", Vol.I, Sir James Mann, 1962....on p.56 in describing a suit of German armour, it is noted that on the gauntlets there ar sequential punched dots, three, and on the gorget plate are found punched crescents. These punched marks seem to appear in variation on a number of these armours, which it should be noted are often, if not typically seen on a number of these. Although of course very speculative, it may be suggested that the appearance of such markings on a weapon such as this sword, possibly made by an armourer of this cottage industry of reproduction armour of the Victorian period might be consistant with base familiarity of such marks on the authentic pieces. It is well known that the familiar 'Genoan' sickle marks are placed essentially back to back, though not joined, and there are three dots at either end of each semicircle. Possibly this linear representation signifies literally back to back semicircles with three dots at either end. Possibilities worth considering, on an increasingly fascinating sword All the best, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 10th December 2006 at 11:10 PM.