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A. G. Maisey · Yesterday, 03:16 AM

"Why could it not, or why should it not have a steel core if it is made of a homogenous material?"

Long answer short:- once a blade is made from two or more materials that do not share a common origin, it is no longer homogenous.
In respect of the Dr. West reference, there are a lot of questions there that I cannot find answers for.

Here is the long answer that will send you to sleep.

Jaga, the word "homogenous" is a difficult word. In the English language as it is spoken in Australia we can understand it as meaning that a material has a particular structure because the parts of that structure are of a common origin (I believe that this definition would stand in a court of law).

So, if a keris has an homogenous structure, that means that all parts of the keris must have a common origin.

Pamor can exist only because the structure of the pamor is comprised of parts that are not of a common origin, thus they contrast with one another.

Once the pamor goes onto that steel core, the keris no longer has an homogenous structure.

There is a type of pamor that has very low contrast, because it is made of non-contrasting material, but even that pamor is differentiated by the addition of the word "sanak". ie, "pamor sanak". In Javanese "sanak" means "related", thus, NOT of a COMMON origin, but of a RELATED origin.

Then we have the matter of the steel core. If a steel core is incorporated into blade structure, then that blade cannot be referred to as "homogenous".

But why would anybody want to put a steel core into a blade that has been made from steel? Wootz is steel, not iron.

In the above I have used the word "keris" in its strict sense as referring to only the blade, in its originating culture, once a keris blade is dressed it should really be referred to by other words.

In respect of Modern Javanese the word "malela" simply means "black iron", but it can also be understood as meaning black sand or reflective black ground.

In Old Javanese, "malela" is a bare reference to a pedang blade, Zoetmulder does not give a BI equivalent.

"Malela" is not found in BI, nor in Malay, it is found in Basa Bali where it can be understood as "steel", apparently Raffles also understood it as steel. That was Jawa first quarter 19th century.

It appears to exist in Sundanese, but it also appears to have an entirely unrelated meaning in this language.

I would be very much interested in trying to understand why Dr. West deduced that the word "malela" referred specifically to wootz.

Yesterday, 03:16 AM	#19
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,113	"Why could it not, or why should it not have a steel core if it is made of a homogenous material?" Long answer short:- once a blade is made from two or more materials that do not share a common origin, it is no longer homogenous. In respect of the Dr. West reference, there are a lot of questions there that I cannot find answers for. Here is the long answer that will send you to sleep. Jaga, the word "homogenous" is a difficult word. In the English language as it is spoken in Australia we can understand it as meaning that a material has a particular structure because the parts of that structure are of a common origin (I believe that this definition would stand in a court of law). So, if a keris has an homogenous structure, that means that all parts of the keris must have a common origin. Pamor can exist only because the structure of the pamor is comprised of parts that are not of a common origin, thus they contrast with one another. Once the pamor goes onto that steel core, the keris no longer has an homogenous structure. There is a type of pamor that has very low contrast, because it is made of non-contrasting material, but even that pamor is differentiated by the addition of the word "sanak". ie, "pamor sanak". In Javanese "sanak" means "related", thus, NOT of a COMMON origin, but of a RELATED origin. Then we have the matter of the steel core. If a steel core is incorporated into blade structure, then that blade cannot be referred to as "homogenous". But why would anybody want to put a steel core into a blade that has been made from steel? Wootz is steel, not iron. In the above I have used the word "keris" in its strict sense as referring to only the blade, in its originating culture, once a keris blade is dressed it should really be referred to by other words. In respect of Modern Javanese the word "malela" simply means "black iron", but it can also be understood as meaning black sand or reflective black ground. In Old Javanese, "malela" is a bare reference to a pedang blade, Zoetmulder does not give a BI equivalent. "Malela" is not found in BI, nor in Malay, it is found in Basa Bali where it can be understood as "steel", apparently Raffles also understood it as steel. That was Jawa first quarter 19th century. It appears to exist in Sundanese, but it also appears to have an entirely unrelated meaning in this language. I would be very much interested in trying to understand why Dr. West deduced that the word "malela" referred specifically to wootz.