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Jim McDougall · 17th February 2025, 04:03 PM

As admittedly a novice with firearms in general, I have looked further into some aspects regarding these WWI machine guns and elements of their use and issues. It would seem that an obvious issue would be the likely jamming of the gun, as this sort of issue in the air would have been hard to resolve while the pilot was trying to control his plane and experiencing the dynamics of combat at hand.

In previous post I noted that the Red Baron's guns were jammed at the time he was killed as flying low to ground after altercation with Canadian pilots flying Sopwith Camels. Looking further, the plot thickens:

Apparently in the outset of the rather more intense dogfight he had been involved in with the large contingent of his 'flying circus' (derisive term used for his squadron), one of the Canadians, Lt. Wilfred May, had been trying to handle the numbers of German planes attacking. He notes (p.86, Carisella) that the best thing he could do was 'spray as many as he could' as he was in a tight turn, then as he admitted, through 'lack of experience' held held ONE of his guns open too long and it jammed, the the other and he could not clear them.

The Red Baron, in the process of chasing this pilot for yet another 'kill' (to add to his 80 victories), while on his tail, ironically he ran into same issues with his Spandau's. After what seems to have been perhaps a similar error after long bursts, one of his Spandau's stopped firing with a broken firing pin (this would have been 695-1725 in previously posted image)...THEN it appeared that the other gun developed a #3 stoppage *

By this time he was low, and as he pounded on his Spandau' s in frustration he was still chasing May, while ground fire was unleashed on him by several Australian units.
It seems ironic that BOTH the hunter and the hunted had jammed guns" in this futile game.

It was the 'golden BB' from the ground fire that killed the Red Baron, not the brief attack by Roy Brown in his Sopwith Camel just prior to this as Brown tried to get the Baron off May. Brown had thought the burst he loosed on him had finished him, and did not continue his attack.

* the term #3 stoppage is from details in the training manuals of the time fir machine gun use, having to do with the position of the cocking lever at the time of stoppage.
#1 is handle forward, #2 slightly to rear and #3 handle behind trigger.

There seems to be variation in these as with Vickers gun, #3 is a feed fault
"The Vickers Machine Gun: Pride of the Emma Gees" D. Goldsmith, 2020.

The other listings are noted as from "SS 448 Method of Instruction in the Lewis Gun" General staff, May 1917.

In other notes it seems that a Lewis after firing slowly for about 4 rounds stopped with a #1 and a Vickers with a #3.

I wondered if perhaps the dual guns that became common on German planes by 1916 were for the cases where a gun jammed, the other still fired.

There were also the issues with belts and spent cartridges,
Apparently the belts typically used were Parabellum MG14 for lighter weight.
Also belts seem to have characteristic differences..... what if incorrect belt used?

After cartridge fired the belt was fed into a side chute off the breech block which would guide the belt into a storage compartment to prevent the belts from interfering with aircraft control mechanisms.
Belts held 500 rounds typically.
Expended cartridges were expended through a round hole on the receiver just under the barrel in Spandaus, and guided out of the aircraft. It seems many pilots had hopper like chutes added to direct the cases out and downward.

I do hope that these details readers here might find interesting, and as I have explained, I have no particular expertise in any of this, so I would welcome any corrections or additions.

17th February 2025, 04:03 PM	#45
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,100	Dynamics concerning operation of the guns As admittedly a novice with firearms in general, I have looked further into some aspects regarding these WWI machine guns and elements of their use and issues. It would seem that an obvious issue would be the likely jamming of the gun, as this sort of issue in the air would have been hard to resolve while the pilot was trying to control his plane and experiencing the dynamics of combat at hand. In previous post I noted that the Red Baron's guns were jammed at the time he was killed as flying low to ground after altercation with Canadian pilots flying Sopwith Camels. Looking further, the plot thickens: Apparently in the outset of the rather more intense dogfight he had been involved in with the large contingent of his 'flying circus' (derisive term used for his squadron), one of the Canadians, Lt. Wilfred May, had been trying to handle the numbers of German planes attacking. He notes (p.86, Carisella) that the best thing he could do was 'spray as many as he could' as he was in a tight turn, then as he admitted, through 'lack of experience' held held ONE of his guns open too long and it jammed, the the other and he could not clear them. The Red Baron, in the process of chasing this pilot for yet another 'kill' (to add to his 80 victories), while on his tail, ironically he ran into same issues with his Spandau's. After what seems to have been perhaps a similar error after long bursts, one of his Spandau's stopped firing with a broken firing pin (this would have been 695-1725 in previously posted image)...THEN it appeared that the other gun developed a #3 stoppage * By this time he was low, and as he pounded on his Spandau' s in frustration he was still chasing May, while ground fire was unleashed on him by several Australian units. It seems ironic that BOTH the hunter and the hunted had jammed guns" in this futile game. It was the 'golden BB' from the ground fire that killed the Red Baron, not the brief attack by Roy Brown in his Sopwith Camel just prior to this as Brown tried to get the Baron off May. Brown had thought the burst he loosed on him had finished him, and did not continue his attack. * the term #3 stoppage is from details in the training manuals of the time fir machine gun use, having to do with the position of the cocking lever at the time of stoppage. #1 is handle forward, #2 slightly to rear and #3 handle behind trigger. There seems to be variation in these as with Vickers gun, #3 is a feed fault "The Vickers Machine Gun: Pride of the Emma Gees" D. Goldsmith, 2020. The other listings are noted as from "SS 448 Method of Instruction in the Lewis Gun" General staff, May 1917. In other notes it seems that a Lewis after firing slowly for about 4 rounds stopped with a #1 and a Vickers with a #3. I wondered if perhaps the dual guns that became common on German planes by 1916 were for the cases where a gun jammed, the other still fired. There were also the issues with belts and spent cartridges, Apparently the belts typically used were Parabellum MG14 for lighter weight. Also belts seem to have characteristic differences..... what if incorrect belt used? After cartridge fired the belt was fed into a side chute off the breech block which would guide the belt into a storage compartment to prevent the belts from interfering with aircraft control mechanisms. Belts held 500 rounds typically. Expended cartridges were expended through a round hole on the receiver just under the barrel in Spandaus, and guided out of the aircraft. It seems many pilots had hopper like chutes added to direct the cases out and downward. I do hope that these details readers here might find interesting, and as I have explained, I have no particular expertise in any of this, so I would welcome any corrections or additions.