Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Captain Kidds Treasure 'silver' (?) ingot

Jim McDougall · 13th February 2025, 02:05 AM

It seems the questions remainng are, A) was the Adventure Galley ACTUALLY scuttled in the harbor at St.Mary's in Madagascar as Barry Clifford tried to intimate with the huge ingot purported to be silver? and as it seems widely held by many references.
B) Did Kidd actually have treasure to bury? even if not in all the wildly suggested tales which led to the unusual 'industry' of 'money digging'. ?
While the vessels he did actually take were not over laden treasure ships, they did have aboard a certain amount of coin, typically gold it seems, with the bulk of the materials being certain commodities.
It does seem, in his struggles with crew anxious for booty, he did sell these materials and distribute proceeds among the crew.

We know Kidd DID have a certain amount of coin, both silver and gold which he still held in New York and before arrest, buried it on Gardiners Island. This small amount was not the hoards that LORE has buried in the various popularly held areas which have led to the legends and famed literature on pirate treasure.....from Irving, Poe to the quintessential "Treasure Island".

But getting back to his ship....the ADVENTURE GALLEY.....was it really dismantled and burned in St. Marys harbor? We know another of Kidd's ships captured was the Rouparelle (later named November) and that WAS dismantled and BURNED in the harbor in 1698. Perhaps this was what gave the notion the Adventure Galley was burned.

Whatever the case, when Kidd left St. Mary's it was in the Quedah Merchant, the Armenian ship he had captured off India, which had caused Kidds branding as pirate.

I found one theory, of course hypothetical, that Kidd had somehow realigned with former adversary Robert Culliford, who was in St. Marys with his vessel, Mocha. In arrangements with him, Kidd offered him the Adventure Galley, which was careened and repaired over weeks. From there it is thought that Culliford renamed it and sailed back to depredations in the Indian Ocean.
While Culliford was later captured, he was able to arrange clemency for testimony and released.
From there, no further record exists of him.

Clearly one key problem with vessels of these times, is that they often changed hands, whether through being refitted or sold, of course being captured by privateers or pirates ....it becomes hard to follow records to identify a ship with different name obviously.

So while this thread is of course focused on the mystery of this silver ingot found in St. Mary's harbor in Madagascar, and prematurely heralded as silver and EVIDENCE of finding Kidd's Adventure Galley.................the related mysteries of Captain Kidd so prevalent in pirate lore are worthy of inclusion here.

It seems there is strong interest in this subject matter, and I hope others reading might add material, observations and ideas here.
Pirate mysteries never get old!!

13th February 2025, 02:05 AM	#23
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,100	Researching further It seems the questions remainng are, A) was the Adventure Galley ACTUALLY scuttled in the harbor at St.Mary's in Madagascar as Barry Clifford tried to intimate with the huge ingot purported to be silver? and as it seems widely held by many references. B) Did Kidd actually have treasure to bury? even if not in all the wildly suggested tales which led to the unusual 'industry' of 'money digging'. ? While the vessels he did actually take were not over laden treasure ships, they did have aboard a certain amount of coin, typically gold it seems, with the bulk of the materials being certain commodities. It does seem, in his struggles with crew anxious for booty, he did sell these materials and distribute proceeds among the crew. We know Kidd DID have a certain amount of coin, both silver and gold which he still held in New York and before arrest, buried it on Gardiners Island. This small amount was not the hoards that LORE has buried in the various popularly held areas which have led to the legends and famed literature on pirate treasure.....from Irving, Poe to the quintessential "Treasure Island". But getting back to his ship....the ADVENTURE GALLEY.....was it really dismantled and burned in St. Marys harbor? We know another of Kidd's ships captured was the Rouparelle (later named November) and that WAS dismantled and BURNED in the harbor in 1698. Perhaps this was what gave the notion the Adventure Galley was burned. Whatever the case, when Kidd left St. Mary's it was in the Quedah Merchant, the Armenian ship he had captured off India, which had caused Kidds branding as pirate. I found one theory, of course hypothetical, that Kidd had somehow realigned with former adversary Robert Culliford, who was in St. Marys with his vessel, Mocha. In arrangements with him, Kidd offered him the Adventure Galley, which was careened and repaired over weeks. From there it is thought that Culliford renamed it and sailed back to depredations in the Indian Ocean. While Culliford was later captured, he was able to arrange clemency for testimony and released. From there, no further record exists of him. Clearly one key problem with vessels of these times, is that they often changed hands, whether through being refitted or sold, of course being captured by privateers or pirates ....it becomes hard to follow records to identify a ship with different name obviously. So while this thread is of course focused on the mystery of this silver ingot found in St. Mary's harbor in Madagascar, and prematurely heralded as silver and EVIDENCE of finding Kidd's Adventure Galley.................the related mysteries of Captain Kidd so prevalent in pirate lore are worthy of inclusion here. It seems there is strong interest in this subject matter, and I hope others reading might add material, observations and ideas here. Pirate mysteries never get old!!