Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Captain Kidds Treasure 'silver' (?) ingot

Jim McDougall · 4th February 2025, 04:51 PM

Getting back to the topic which is basically, DID Captain Kidd have a treasure in the first place, and why would the the ADVENTURE GALLEY have been a candidate for holding said treasure?

Despite the short lived excitement brought by Clifford's purported finding of the ADVENTURE GALLEY in the harbor at St.Marys in Madagascar, all current references note the remains have NOT been found, and no further rebuttal has been forthcoming toward that event, nor any further effort or interest in finding this wreck has seemed to exist.,

In looking into this ship itself, it was apparently launched at one of Englands largest shipyards, that of Captain Willam Castle at Deptford, outside London, in 1695. When Kidd was backed by the syndicate of investors, the governor and several high station individuals, the latter of marque was approved by King William III who also would gain a percentage....he acquired the vessel in 1696.

When he ventured forth into his 'pirate hunting' enterprise, presumably his goal was more toward confiscating the great riches they were acquiring from their conquests than to bring these pirates to justice. Having virtually zero success in finding, let alone taking any pirate prizes in the two years he plied the waters in the Indian Ocean and others, he finally inadvertently became 'pirate' himself. This was by taking two prizes, the ROUPARELLE (November) and the large Armenian vessel for India, the QUEDAGH MERCHANT off the Malabar Coast in 1698.
As typically the case, these 'treasure' aboard merchant ships was goods, not gold, silver and jewels (though obviously these were somewhat present as currency in trade).

So after TWO years of being at sea, the Adventure Galley had become a leaking and barely seaworthy vessel. Kidd decided to take it and the Rouparelle to St. Marys, and the larger Quedah Merchant was to become the vessel of use.
As far as known, the Adventure Galley was OFFLOADED and sunk somewhere off the NW coast of Madagascar, it never made it to St.Marys. It seems the Rouparelle renamed 'November' was scuttled at St. Marys, likely burned as several other vessels there.
The remaining vessel, the Quedah Merchant took Kidd to Hispaniola (now Dominican Republic), where eventually it was too sunk after Kidd purchased a sloop.
That wreck there has presumably been located.

Captain Kidd was never a very successful privateer, pirate hunter...and certainly not pirate. The few prizes he took were unlikely to have held any large quantities of 'treasure', though a degree of such proceeds were indeed secreted at Gardiners Island just prior to arrest, and was quickly retrieved after. The value was nominal, and Kidd tried to imply more treasure was to be found using it as a bargaining chip.

It was entirely a ploy, any treasure that existed would have been taken OFF his vessels BEFORE they were scuttled. None of these ships were 'LOST' unexpectedly. He had few prizes with evidence of huge riches, they held primarily goods which were sold off. Those proceeds were, as with most pirates, quickly spent, not buried.

So the key question here applies mostly to the subject of LEAD INGOTS used as ballast, and why would this example have EVER been mistaken (?) for silver?

Just some thoughts to reiterate the theme of the thread and discussion.

By this time (1698)

4th February 2025, 04:51 PM	#22
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,100	Getting back to the topic which is basically, DID Captain Kidd have a treasure in the first place, and why would the the ADVENTURE GALLEY have been a candidate for holding said treasure? Despite the short lived excitement brought by Clifford's purported finding of the ADVENTURE GALLEY in the harbor at St.Marys in Madagascar, all current references note the remains have NOT been found, and no further rebuttal has been forthcoming toward that event, nor any further effort or interest in finding this wreck has seemed to exist., In looking into this ship itself, it was apparently launched at one of Englands largest shipyards, that of Captain Willam Castle at Deptford, outside London, in 1695. When Kidd was backed by the syndicate of investors, the governor and several high station individuals, the latter of marque was approved by King William III who also would gain a percentage....he acquired the vessel in 1696. When he ventured forth into his 'pirate hunting' enterprise, presumably his goal was more toward confiscating the great riches they were acquiring from their conquests than to bring these pirates to justice. Having virtually zero success in finding, let alone taking any pirate prizes in the two years he plied the waters in the Indian Ocean and others, he finally inadvertently became 'pirate' himself. This was by taking two prizes, the ROUPARELLE (November) and the large Armenian vessel for India, the QUEDAGH MERCHANT off the Malabar Coast in 1698. As typically the case, these 'treasure' aboard merchant ships was goods, not gold, silver and jewels (though obviously these were somewhat present as currency in trade). So after TWO years of being at sea, the Adventure Galley had become a leaking and barely seaworthy vessel. Kidd decided to take it and the Rouparelle to St. Marys, and the larger Quedah Merchant was to become the vessel of use. As far as known, the Adventure Galley was OFFLOADED and sunk somewhere off the NW coast of Madagascar, it never made it to St.Marys. It seems the Rouparelle renamed 'November' was scuttled at St. Marys, likely burned as several other vessels there. The remaining vessel, the Quedah Merchant took Kidd to Hispaniola (now Dominican Republic), where eventually it was too sunk after Kidd purchased a sloop. That wreck there has presumably been located. Captain Kidd was never a very successful privateer, pirate hunter...and certainly not pirate. The few prizes he took were unlikely to have held any large quantities of 'treasure', though a degree of such proceeds were indeed secreted at Gardiners Island just prior to arrest, and was quickly retrieved after. The value was nominal, and Kidd tried to imply more treasure was to be found using it as a bargaining chip. It was entirely a ploy, any treasure that existed would have been taken OFF his vessels BEFORE they were scuttled. None of these ships were 'LOST' unexpectedly. He had few prizes with evidence of huge riches, they held primarily goods which were sold off. Those proceeds were, as with most pirates, quickly spent, not buried. So the key question here applies mostly to the subject of LEAD INGOTS used as ballast, and why would this example have EVER been mistaken (?) for silver? Just some thoughts to reiterate the theme of the thread and discussion. By this time (1698)