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Old 27th January 2025, 03:38 PM   #14
Jim McDougall
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
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Thanks guys!! The Captain Kidd 'mysteries' have been effectively the prevalent fiber in the great 'pirate' and 'treasure' tapestries of cultural lore since the day the unfortunate captain was hanged in 1701. It was his alluding to his burying of treasure as leverage in his prosecution that created the very notion that became the linchpin to the treasure hunting/pirate myths and legends.

Capn, in our earliest days our common bond was our fascination with pirates, and of course the Whydah and Cliffords book was part of that foundation.
Naturally we always held that sacrosanct through the years, and in more recent times, the unfortunate truths which overshadowed the important core achievements disappointingly were revealed.

Rick, as you note the discovery of the Santa Maria wreck is heavily disputed and remains so. It seems much of the identification was based on broad assumptions and the discovery of a lombard cannon (which was said to be noted in contemporary accounts). That item apparently was 'stolen' (?) since its retrieval.

In reading more on Mr. Cliffords exploits, the 'discovery' of the Revolutionary War ship General Arnold in 1976 was given great fanfare. However it was later found that while the vessel foundered on a shoal, it was apparently not sunk and was later refloated and went back into service under another name, Amsterdam, as Benedict Arnold had been disgraced.

What Clifford apparently found was the remains of a barge which carried stone.

This sounds remarkably like the situation with the large ingot found at Isle of St. Marie in Madagascar, in which this was heralded as proof of the wreck of Kidd's 'Adventure Galley'.
Somehow the declaration of this unusually large ingot as silver ended up being found to be LEAD, and the wreckage not from a vessel but debris from dock construction.
Ironically this unfortunate result recalls the 'discovery' of the 'General Arnold' notably, with the mundane 'evidence' shown.

With the spurious 'silver' bar, it was apparently presented to Malagasy officials in Madagascar, so that must be where it remained. To date I have never found any mention of the 'Adventure Galley' being located, nor any rebuttal etc from Mr. Clifford over the last decade saying otherwise.


Capn Mark, I think your idea that this spuriously marked lead bar was likely pitched overboard is most likely. While lead ingots used as ballast were often offloaded into a harbor to discharge weight, obviously if this were the case there would have been many more in the location.
With these curious markings and the singular presence, clearly this bar was an attempt to disguise it as silver. There is no evidence that it would be linked to Captain Kidd as numbers of pirate vessels and activity were often present in this pirate hub.

The idea of disguising gold bars by painting them black is very "Maltese Falcon' but curious in that distinctive shape and cryptic symbols used in assaying would make the item still obvious as a precious metal ingot..even if painted black. Still stranger things have happened, so possible. .......but an ANCHOR made of gold??? yikes! That would be incredible.

Lead ingots were indeed made intended as for use as ballast, the primary foundaries were in England, in fact many Dutch ships acquired these for such use. If I understand correctly the shape is somewhat different in these heavy ingots, and some resembled somewhat the Madagascar one (sort of a stylized fish shape). There were it seems some sort of identifying stamp marks used (as I did find a chart of some of them) but does not seem as controlled obviously as assayed metals.


I am still up to my ears in Captain Kidd related references along with maritime archaeology books mostly trying to somehow catalog all of the influence this unintended 'pirate' carried into the iconic legends of piracy.
Most notably of course was the 'treasure hunting' phenomenon that thoroughly influenced literature, and via that venue led to remarkable deceptive circumstances widely practiced. These became part of popular culture and iconic elements of the adventure so cherished by so many.

As often said, maybe the adventure is the true treasure
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