[A. G. Maisey]

It is indeed true that when discussion strays into the areas of politics and religion, it strays into areas that can be sensitive, and there is potential to give offence, which can lead to unpleasantness.

A brief revue of all that has been written above will clearly demonstrate that nobody who has yet commented on religion in this thread has transgressed in even the slightest degree.

May this remain so.

Please allow me to be very clear about this:-
In my earlier post I was not putting forward personal opinion.

The matters of the nature of animism, and of the nature of Islam in Jawa, are not matters in which personal opinion can carry very much weight.

The nature of Islam in Jawa has been well documented by both Indonesian and foreign anthropologists.

Where an individual`s opinion is at variance with the body of academic evidence, that opinion may be respected as the individual's right, but it cannot be given any credence.

The simple fact of the matter is that the majority of people in Indonesia are not yet ready to implement Islamic laws. They are still in the teaching phase (dakwah), and not yet at the stage of approval (ijabah).

If we look at Islam at the time of Prophet Muhammed, when he was in Mecca he spent his time there teaching. He tried to spread the faith amongst the people and to have them submit to and worship one God. At this time the society in Mecca was unruly and disordered. The Prophet tried to bring order to this chaos, but the laws of Islam had not yet been set down.In fact, at this time the Prophet did not forbid the drinking of alchohol. People were still permitted to drink alchohol, but they were not permitted to be drunk when they were praying. (Al Qur'an 4.42).

However, after the flight to Medinah, Muhammed set down the laws, and made regulations that became known as the "Medinah Charter", which set forth rules of government, and importantly gave Christians and Jews the right to practice their own religions.

Over time, the fabric of Indonesian society may develop a stronger Islamic colour, however, that day is still a very long way into the future.

The number of people who undertake the Haj from Indonesia is a matter of public record. Moreover, amongst some leaders of the Islamic community in Indonesia it is also a matter for concern. The reasons for an Indonesian, especially a person of Javanese cultural background, undertaking the Haj are perhaps not as clear cut as they may seem to be.I will not comment further on this matter in the open Forum, but I am prepared to comment privately.

Whilst it is true that a number of cities and regencies in Indonesia have adopted sharia-style by-laws, only the Province of Aceh has been granted the right to implement sharia law, and that was granted only in the hope that it would end the secessionist movement in that province.

There is a vast difference between city by-laws and the judicial fabric of a nation. The situation in Tangerang is well known, where city by-laws exist which in practice mean that after dark, an unaccompanied woman can be arrested on suspicion of prostitution. This by-law was introduced by an Islamic conservative dominated city council and has caused much dissension within the community.There is by no means majority support within the Tangerang community for the current by-laws in that city.

Since before the last elections Islamic conservatives have been penetrating the bureacracy, the military, NGO's, and every level of politics, as well as organisations within universities.

Official Indonesian government figures quote only 6.5% of Muslims being able to be considered as conservatives, but that 6.5% has been making a concerted push for some years now to gain control of the government and administration of the country. It is expected that after the next Indonesian general elections there will be an increase in the level of Islamic influence in government, than is presently the case.

However, the possible implementation of nation-wide sharia law is not something that has even the smallest possibility of occurring, short of the disintegration of the country of Indonesia. Such a move would be contrary to the provisions of the constitution, and would result in a popular uprising.


In respect of the position of Majapahit in the history of Jawa, and the present day nation of Indonesia.

Again, I have not put forward my own opinion:- I have repeated the accepted academic position.
I suggest that a reading of:- Sejarah Nasional Indonesia-Poesponegoro & Notosusanto (Dep Pendidikan dan Kebudayaan)
and Kebudayaan Jawa-Koentjaraningrat (Balai Pusaka)

may assist in providing a slightly better understanding of this phase of Javanese history. Koenjaraningrat could well prove of value in other respects, also.



The keris is not a man.

It is a symbol of man.

Man was created by God, and God gave man his soul.

The keris was created by man.

Man is not able to create a soul.

To compare a creation of man with a creation of God is something that some people could deem to verge on blasphemy.

The keris is a cultural icon, created by man. Under some conditions, and for some people it can be believed to contain a spiritual force, however, this spiritual force is not a constant for all people.

Where a keris is the pusaka of a kinship group, for members of that group, the keris can act as the agent that brings together past custodians of the keris, and the present custodian, and links all present members of the kinship group.

However, for any person who is outside that kinship group, the keris is only a piece of metal.

In other words, the pusaka keris only has spiritual power for those within the kinship group.

Clearly, it is not the keris which has spiritual power, but the spiritual force within the keris called into existence by the belief of the members of the kinship group.

For those who believe that a keris has some particular power , this power can be talismanic (tuah), or it can be spiritual (isi).In either case the power can only exist when it is believed to exist by man.

I would liken this to the spirit that may exist in a shrine, or other holy places. Man has built the shrine, and by faith has called a presence into the shrine.

For a non-believer , there is no presence in the shrine---it is simply a pile of stones.But for the believer, the spiritual force within the shrine can provide spiritual sustenance.

Within Javanese society it is sometimes believed that a particular keris may be bringing somebody bad luck. Often a dukun will be called to remove the spirit bringing the bad luck, from the keris. If the dukun is successful, the bad luck will cease, if he is unsuccessful and the bad luck continues, the owner of the keris will search for somebody who is prepared to take the keris as a gift. When a new owner accepts the keris as a gift, clearly he does not believe that it can bring him bad luck:- if he did, he would not accept it.

Within my experience, I know of nobody who has accepted the custody of a "bad luck" keris recieving any bad luck along with the keris.

The talismanic power of a keris, and the spiritual power of a keris are totally separable from the physical entity of the keris, and both depend completely upon the belief of the person who has custody of the keris.