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					Originally Posted by Philip
					
				 Well, the foray into Confucious and the Chinese civil service is quite a stretch, isn't it?  What the examination system had to do with the jian and its use isn't exactly clear, but let me think about it. ... | 
	
 Thanks Philip. Much appreciated if you can bring Confucius, the Chinese civil service, and the examination system into focus with regard to the 
jian and its use. Wayne's comments are a bit "fuzzy" to me.