Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Ian · 28th May 2006, 11:16 PM

Zel:

I have an old thread bookmarked on the preivous Forum because you provided some very interesting information about scabbards from Panay and their dating. That thread was from 2003 and is here: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001532.html

Just to highlight your comments that were most illuminating, I have copied some of them below. I'm wondering if there is an update to that old discussion that you would like to add here, because I think you have changed your mind since then on a few points. You were responding to some picture of bolos that Federico had posted.

Theanks Zel.

Ian.

--------------------------

From post of 04-02-2003

"Nice bolos, Federico!

You pose an interesting question that can only be speculated. Both bolos are Visayan, but the diety-hilt bolo is most likely from Panay...the other one is probably from Samar, Leyte, or even Cebu.

First of all, that diety-hilt bolo is much older than WWII vintage. True it might have been acquired by the previous owner during that time, but it was probably an old bolo then and not brand new. For one thing, it has a round crossguard made probably of a hardwood (kamagong or narra) or carabao horn. In general you wouldn't find any crossguard on any Visayan sword, but it seems around the turn of the 20th century crossguards became in vogue, probably due to the influence of the Spanish American war. Usually, these crossguards are made of brass, tin, or iron and fashioned into an "S" or "D" guard which was popular up to around WWII. However, the round wooden/carabao horn crossguard pre-dates the later Spanish influenced "S" or "D" guard. Of all the older diety-hilt swords I've seen and handled, the truly older examples either had the round guard or no guard at all. It seems that the ones with the metal guards were made around the Span-Am war to WWII. Another thing I've noticed is that on your example, there is no round or octaganol iron/brass ferrule. This is another good indicator of age. The older examples of diety hilt bolos would not have a ferrule or have just a ferrule made of thinner sheet metal. The ferrules of later bolos tend to be more robust and made of heavier guage iron or brass and brazed/soldered into a solid piece. Sometimes the really older diety-hilt bolos would have the grip wrapped in cord or woven rattan similar to talibons contemporary to it. Finally, the scabbard is a good indicator of age as well. The older diety hilt bolos were sheathed in scabbards similar to talibon scabbards with the exception that the toe-end was squared off and blunt...(blunt, squared-off toes tend to be a Panay trait.) The construction is very similar to the familiar talibon scabbard with a carved "hanger" block on one side where it is drilled through or slotted that a cord belt can pass through. However, sometime before the late 19th century the scabbards from Panay evolved in a way that the wooden hanger blocked disappeared altogether and instead was replaced with a leather collar stitched together at the throat. Woven rattan bands were still used to hold the scabbard together, but metals bands began to appear. Fancier scabbards were covered in horn or tortoiseshell and bound with engraved brass bands. However, the distinguishing trait of these Panay scabbards was and is still the leather covered throat. I posted several different examples in a previous thread a few months ago. Maybe someone can find the link. If I had to guess, I'd say that diety hilt bolo of yours is probably mid to late 19th century.

Now how that bolo ended up in Leyte can only be speculated. Is it possible that this sailor took a side trip to Panay? Maybe..Anything could be possible. It was probably brought to Panay from an even previous owner or it could possibly have been part of a trade and used as barter. Who knows for sure...traveling between islands in the Philippines was not uncommon. In fact, at my grandparents home on Panay they have an old Bagobo sword and an old Moro kris displayed. They apparently belonged to my great-great-grandfather. My grandmother said he use to travel and trade goods between the Visayas and Mindanao. Unfortunatley, my grandmother wouldn't let me take the two swords from their estate. Oh well, I tried!"

28th May 2006, 11:16 PM	#24
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,336	Zel -- can you clarify earlier comments? Zel: I have an old thread bookmarked on the preivous Forum because you provided some very interesting information about scabbards from Panay and their dating. That thread was from 2003 and is here: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001532.html Just to highlight your comments that were most illuminating, I have copied some of them below. I'm wondering if there is an update to that old discussion that you would like to add here, because I think you have changed your mind since then on a few points. You were responding to some picture of bolos that Federico had posted. Theanks Zel. Ian. -------------------------- From post of 04-02-2003 "Nice bolos, Federico! You pose an interesting question that can only be speculated. Both bolos are Visayan, but the diety-hilt bolo is most likely from Panay...the other one is probably from Samar, Leyte, or even Cebu. First of all, that diety-hilt bolo is much older than WWII vintage. True it might have been acquired by the previous owner during that time, but it was probably an old bolo then and not brand new. For one thing, it has a round crossguard made probably of a hardwood (kamagong or narra) or carabao horn. In general you wouldn't find any crossguard on any Visayan sword, but it seems around the turn of the 20th century crossguards became in vogue, probably due to the influence of the Spanish American war. Usually, these crossguards are made of brass, tin, or iron and fashioned into an "S" or "D" guard which was popular up to around WWII. However, the round wooden/carabao horn crossguard pre-dates the later Spanish influenced "S" or "D" guard. Of all the older diety-hilt swords I've seen and handled, the truly older examples either had the round guard or no guard at all. It seems that the ones with the metal guards were made around the Span-Am war to WWII. Another thing I've noticed is that on your example, there is no round or octaganol iron/brass ferrule. This is another good indicator of age. The older examples of diety hilt bolos would not have a ferrule or have just a ferrule made of thinner sheet metal. The ferrules of later bolos tend to be more robust and made of heavier guage iron or brass and brazed/soldered into a solid piece. Sometimes the really older diety-hilt bolos would have the grip wrapped in cord or woven rattan similar to talibons contemporary to it. Finally, the scabbard is a good indicator of age as well. The older diety hilt bolos were sheathed in scabbards similar to talibon scabbards with the exception that the toe-end was squared off and blunt...(blunt, squared-off toes tend to be a Panay trait.) The construction is very similar to the familiar talibon scabbard with a carved "hanger" block on one side where it is drilled through or slotted that a cord belt can pass through. However, sometime before the late 19th century the scabbards from Panay evolved in a way that the wooden hanger blocked disappeared altogether and instead was replaced with a leather collar stitched together at the throat. Woven rattan bands were still used to hold the scabbard together, but metals bands began to appear. Fancier scabbards were covered in horn or tortoiseshell and bound with engraved brass bands. However, the distinguishing trait of these Panay scabbards was and is still the leather covered throat. I posted several different examples in a previous thread a few months ago. Maybe someone can find the link. If I had to guess, I'd say that diety hilt bolo of yours is probably mid to late 19th century. Now how that bolo ended up in Leyte can only be speculated. Is it possible that this sailor took a side trip to Panay? Maybe..Anything could be possible. It was probably brought to Panay from an even previous owner or it could possibly have been part of a trade and used as barter. Who knows for sure...traveling between islands in the Philippines was not uncommon. In fact, at my grandparents home on Panay they have an old Bagobo sword and an old Moro kris displayed. They apparently belonged to my great-great-grandfather. My grandmother said he use to travel and trade goods between the Visayas and Mindanao. Unfortunatley, my grandmother wouldn't let me take the two swords from their estate. Oh well, I tried!"