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Originally Posted by David
I was not at all arguing that the Malay Sundang does not have its origins in the Philippines as a form, only that once it migrated back to the peninsula that local smiths also manufactured a certain amount of blades on what we recognize as Malay Sundangs.
I know that Charles has posted a number of Malay Sundangs that carried blades we all seemed to agree at the time were not of Moro origin and these sundangs were most certainly not of a souvenir nature. Here is a link to one such discussion.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14292
I am well aware of the generic nature of the word "sundang" and it's many uses throughout SEA. Examples like this are what makes the name game so ridiculous at times. However, i can state fairly confidently the the "so-called" Malay Sundang is what Malay collectors call their particular version of the Moro Kris on their own turf. As a Western collector i am not really willing to step in and explain to the Malay people that it is simply a "so-called" name, nor am i about to cite the writings of a any number of Europeans to explain to them why that name is some how inappropriate. It simply is the name that is used by local collectors in Indonesia and the Malay Peninsula AFAIK.
Again, i do believe that a great number of these Malay examples are indeed re-dressed Moro blades, however, as this form became more accepted amongst the Malay it seems only logical that they would begin to manufacture a few blades of their own in this form. I don't know that these non-Moro blades were forged on the Peninsula or Borneo, or some other place in Indonesia, but it seems clear that they were not made by Moros in the Morolands. Please keep in mind that the Malay people are not restricted just to Malaysia and the Peninsula. When we use the word Malay we refer to Malay Peninsula, eastern Sumatra and coastal Borneo, as well as the smaller islands which lie between these locations — areas that are collectively known as the Malay world. These locations today are part of the modern nations of Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Brunei, and southern Thailand. |
I mean no offense, but based on the references I mentioned I really see no evidence of the manufacture of sundang in peninsular Malaysia in the past. Like I said, I recognize the possibility that these blades were also manufactured in places other than Sulu such as Borneo and Sumatra which may account for the variation in style. But judging from the examples I've seen in the discussion threads, many look like they came straight from the Sulu and the Mindanao area, and not just in form. I think that the probability of Moro manufactured blades being traded and reaching peninsular Malaysia should also be taken seriously.
The Philippines has been and still is part of the Malay world. While there are those who consider Islam a component of "Malayness" most Filipinos (many of whom are Catholic) would say that they belong to the Malay race. They are known to have traveled across the region in pre-Spanish times (mid 16th Century). The presence of ancient Filipinos in Malacca was recorded by the Portuguese, Tome Pires in the early 1500s. He referred to them as Lucoes or "Luzon Men." While he did not give a completely flattering description of them, they were nonetheless described as fierce warriors. He also explained how they participated in wars between sultans and against the Portuguese. Based on the record, it seems they were mercenaries which may explain the presence of their weapons in Peninsular Malaysia. The big question is whether they already had the sundang with them at the time. There is no evidence to prove it yet.
Nonetheless, trade between Southern Philippines (Sulu) and the rest of the Malay world would continue even after Luzon, the Visayas and parts of Mindanao were colonized by Spain. (Saleeby and Warren explain this) Sometime during this period, I suspect the Moro blacksmiths also sold their blades to people in other parts of the region, including the peninsular Malaysians. There was nothing to stop them from doing so.
Btw, I respect the use of the term "Malay Sundang" but again I do not agree that they were locally manufactured in Peninsular Malaysia.
I have also seen the beautiful non Moro "Malay Sundang" that you mentioned and they were certainly not made to be souvenirs. But as I have stated above, I was referring to the blades I personally saw being sold in KL currently branded as Keris Sundang and also referred to as Malay Sundang. They really look more like a cross between the kris and the keris, just like Ian's blade.