Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 21st February 2017, 05:08 PM

Exactly Jens, and the reason I posed this barrage of questions is to set out the kinds of questions that we ,meaning not only us, but any serious student of arms and collector of Indian weaponry, should be asking.

In my post, and aware of the complexity of the Rajput clan system, I noted the three primary lineages, avoiding trying to catalog the many sub clans at this point. Here in trying to explain the nature of the Rajput clans, the goal was to illustrate that these symbols of the primary lineages may account for at least some of the themes in the pommel discs.

Here is where the complications begin, and only the steadfast researcher will achieve gainful advances as they probe further into these matters. It is far from an easy task, as you and I know, as we are aware of how tenacious such study must be, and the frustration and disappointments which thwart it seems too many hopeful leads.
We can only hope that a new breed of researchers are among the new collectors and students of Indian history, and armed with the ever advancing technology, can carry the efforts of the 'old guard', to the new vistas we have ever hoped to achieve.

Even resolving a few of the Rajput symbolism conundrums will hopefully give us better perspective on perhaps resolving the questions toward those motifs in other contexts outside the Rajput spectrum. For example, as you note, the floral character in some where the number of petals shown (like the number of rays in solar or flames in fire) carry some esoteric meaning.

When is a solar ray actually a flame? aren't the 'rays' of sun actually flames from the cosmic ball of fire we know as the sun?
Examining these seemingly aesthetic decorations and motifs in these perspectives becomes a philosophical and many manners of extremely subjective thought, far too complex for most students or collectors.

However to really appreciate a weapon, to understand its true history, we need to try to understand those who had them, who decorated them, and what these things meant to them. The swords and weapons were in many ways the icons of the very being of those who owned them.

That is what the study of arms is all about, and that of the Indian arms is not only some of the most colorful and fascinating, but profoundly challenging that any serious student of arms may encounter.
You have studied and worked tenaciously at this for many decades of your life, and given us all the sound footing and key benchmarks needed to continue the quest . .......for us, and others who will join.....onward!!!

21st February 2017, 05:08 PM	#70
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,135	Exactly Jens, and the reason I posed this barrage of questions is to set out the kinds of questions that we ,meaning not only us, but any serious student of arms and collector of Indian weaponry, should be asking. In my post, and aware of the complexity of the Rajput clan system, I noted the three primary lineages, avoiding trying to catalog the many sub clans at this point. Here in trying to explain the nature of the Rajput clans, the goal was to illustrate that these symbols of the primary lineages may account for at least some of the themes in the pommel discs. Here is where the complications begin, and only the steadfast researcher will achieve gainful advances as they probe further into these matters. It is far from an easy task, as you and I know, as we are aware of how tenacious such study must be, and the frustration and disappointments which thwart it seems too many hopeful leads. We can only hope that a new breed of researchers are among the new collectors and students of Indian history, and armed with the ever advancing technology, can carry the efforts of the 'old guard', to the new vistas we have ever hoped to achieve. Even resolving a few of the Rajput symbolism conundrums will hopefully give us better perspective on perhaps resolving the questions toward those motifs in other contexts outside the Rajput spectrum. For example, as you note, the floral character in some where the number of petals shown (like the number of rays in solar or flames in fire) carry some esoteric meaning. When is a solar ray actually a flame? aren't the 'rays' of sun actually flames from the cosmic ball of fire we know as the sun? Examining these seemingly aesthetic decorations and motifs in these perspectives becomes a philosophical and many manners of extremely subjective thought, far too complex for most students or collectors. However to really appreciate a weapon, to understand its true history, we need to try to understand those who had them, who decorated them, and what these things meant to them. The swords and weapons were in many ways the icons of the very being of those who owned them. That is what the study of arms is all about, and that of the Indian arms is not only some of the most colorful and fascinating, but profoundly challenging that any serious student of arms may encounter. You have studied and worked tenaciously at this for many decades of your life, and given us all the sound footing and key benchmarks needed to continue the quest . .......for us, and others who will join.....onward!!!